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Century skeletal fans  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:16 pm
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Steve Stephens
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I was helping Bill Voigt yesterday go through some of his fans and took note of some differences among his Century skeletal fan.

Most notable were two of his stationary models. One has a two bolt motor and the other a four bolt one. Bolts are those that hold the end plated together. It seems that all of the skeletal oscillator models and just two bolts as do the S-4 models.

Upon getting home I looked at my Centurys; 12" Model 14 has four bolts and 16" Model 15 has the two bolts. My stationary S-3 with cast iron base has four bolts so it looks like the later stationary skeletals are the ones with the two bolts.

Below; four bolt S-3 (no model #)

Attached Image (viewed 3166 times):

CIMG2282.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:17 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Motor tag of fan pictured above.

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CIMG2286.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:18 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Two bolt motor S-3 Model 15
Are your eyes failing now? Mine too and I took the these photos all at the same time. Sorry for the big blurrrrrrrr.

Attached Image (viewed 2769 times):

CIMG2285.JPG

Last edited on Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:19 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:20 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Motor tag of the two bolt fan. 30 cycles!!!!!

Now, which is the earlier fan? Motor tag of the four bolt fan is larger and has no patent date yet the serial number is considerably lower. Oilers may be older style on the four bolt motor and match my motors as do the flip cap oilers on the two bolt motors match on Bill's and my motors.

Ser. #s on my two fans are 20418 on my 12" Model 14 (no patent date on tag) and 63591 on my 16" two bolt motor Model 15 (tag has 1914 patent date).

2645 is the ser. # on my early cast base 12" S-3 and no patent date on motor tag. It looks like the no-patent tags are on earlier fans as well as the ball type oiler with flip-cap oilers being later as well as the two bolt motors being later on the non-oscillators.

You'll note the somewhat larger hole openings around the motor on the two bolt motors as well as more holes all together. Those extra bolts take up room otherwise used for the nice holes.

Attached Image (viewed 2765 times):

CIMG2287.JPG

Last edited on Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:29 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 10:36 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Hey fellas

I'm new to the site, but not to fan collecting.

I have a Century S3 and I want to rewind the field. I've tried to remove the windings myself, (I've tried every method from the PVC pipe trick and so on) but no success. I'm really afraid of damaging the housing.

Anyway, who do you guys use to rewind and rebuild motors?

Need pics? I'll send some

Thanks

Gil in DC (Lorton Va, actually)

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 Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 04:17 am
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Doug Handley
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Gil Solorzano wrote:
Anyway, who do you guys use to rewind and rebuild motors?



Eurton Electric.  http://www.eurtonelectric.com/

But I think that you will have to pull the stator out to send to them.  I don't know if they will pull it for you. 

Last edited on Mon Aug 17th, 2009 04:20 am by Doug Handley

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 Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Thanks very much!

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 02:27 pm
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Fred Berry
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My stationary S-3 with cast iron base has four bolts so it looks like the later stationary skeletals are the ones with the two bolts.
My cast-iron, split-phase, no-model-number S3 stationary also has four bolts, and my S4 has two.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 10:41 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Hello
I finally got the stator out... I used a combination or heat, gentle tapping with the PVC pipe method and a tap or two with punches (no damage.

Turns out, two brass pins attaching the label to the housing were all the way through to the stator... they broke off when the stator came out.

Anyway here's a pic of the motor apart.

The stator goes to Eulon electric for a rebuild... I carefully tried to power it up wehn it was together and got nothing. My meter tells me there's an open wire somewhere.


Attached Image (viewed 2536 times):

fan pics aug 2009 003.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Aug 26th, 2009 01:14 am
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Richard Larson
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12" S3 Model 15 Oscillator, 2 bolts. 1914 Patent date on the tag serial #71153.

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S3.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Aug 26th, 2009 03:10 am
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Gil Solorzano
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You have a fine example of an S3. At least your base is in better shape than mine.

There was much corrosion on the lower base and the steel plate was extremely rusted but salvageable. I bead blasted the plate and only the lower base. I want to save as much of the original finish as possible, so I only painted  the lower base.

For the swivel, I merely touched up using black primer... it looks very original!

More pics to folo...

Attached Image (viewed 2855 times):

fan pics aug 2009 013.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 07:00 am
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Brad Chaney
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I must have been gone to long, I can't believe I missed a Century post. 

Steve both of my S3 15 oscilllators are two bolt and have the Serials of 72541 and 67385. 

 

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 07:09 am
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Brad Chaney
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Steve

It looks like both the bolts in the 2 and 4 bolt cases are brass. I have one with brass and one without, which is original?  I always assumed that the brass ones were a later enhancement as the S3 I have with the brass bolts also has had the grease cap screws changed to brass.  Thanks Brad.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 02:23 pm
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Jerry F Bacon
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Gil,

Don't use that red can of oil.......get the BLUE can.

Jerry

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 07:24 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Brad,
All my 5 speed Century fans have what look to be original steel screws, both the ones that hold the end bells on the motor and the strut screws. I had an S-4 with brass strut screws but I think they had been changed as some people do like the look of brass over steel. I returned that fan to having steel screws.
Edit: What may look brassie to you could be the fact that the motor bolts appear to have originally been blued. After some bluing wears off and the screw head gets some oxidation on it, the color might resemble tarnished brass.

Also, it's my observation that all 5 speed Century oscillators have two screws holding the end belsl on (S-4 rear only; S-3 front and rear) while starionary models have either two bolts (S-4 rear and S-3 front and rear) or four bolts (S-3 fronr and rear).

In my photos files I have an S-4 with a screwed on motor tag. All my fans have their motor tags riveted on with brass rivets or drive pins so I would think any tags screwed on have been removed and replaced.

Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:08 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 10:04 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Hi

I use 20wt non-detergent motor oil for fan lube... The black stuff I use for cleaning and removing rusted parts. The blue can is 20 wt oil. I found a bottle of Castrol 20wt non det. at the auto supply store. Needless to say, non detergent motor oil isn't a big seller.

I have the stator at Eurlon electric being rewired... turns out, it was not in good shape. The job isn't cheap, either.

Need to get new bearings, but I'm worried there may be wear on the surface of the shaft that meets the bearing.

This fan must have had a very hard life.


Attached Image (viewed 2811 times):

fan pics aug 2009 006.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 07:19 am
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Steve Stephens
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Gil Solorzano wrote:

This fan must have had a very hard life.

I think we can say that about most Century Skeletals. Gil, how's your rewind/restore coming? Weigh in here if you get a chance.

More lookie feelie for me at Bill Voigts today with time spent looking at his Century S-3 skeletals. I noticed some more interesting differences:

Brass oil cups seem to be on the earlier fans; 4 bolt non-oscillators for instance, while the later 2 bolt non-oscillators have steel oil cups. Ball type oil ports on earlier fans but GITS type flip cap oilers on later fans.

Brass switch handles on the earlier fans and steel handles on the later ones. But the earliest ones with cast iron bases have a red fiber switch handle. Switches vary also but I don't have any details now.

Motor body screws and most other small hardware seems to have been blued. Strut screws may have been blued or painted black or both.

Non-oscillators only- sheet metal sleeve covers center section of the motor body where the motor tag is riveted on. This in on the early 4 bolt motors from the first cast iron base ones to the later steel based ones. The early cast base motor seems to have a continuous sleeve with no visible joint around the motor while later 4-bolt steel base motors have a sleeve that is crimped together at the bottom of the motor. The later Model 15 2 bolt non-oscillator and all oscillator motors have a solid cast iron motor body from the front of the motor to the separable rear end bell.

I once saw an S-3 with a polished brass band between the two end bells which I think was a replacement for the steel band. Sure makes it tempting to do that if you like bling but that would only be possible on the 4 bolt non-oscillator motors.

That 30 cycle S-3 I posted a photo of above runs great on 60 cycles but oh, so, slowly. Maybe good to run on the two high speeds; it won't keep going on SLOW. The question I have is "how to best run this fan without damaging the motor or overheating it?"
Do I have to change the voltage from my 125 v. line voltage or what? Bill says build a 30 cycle generator and run it on that. I kind of like the extra slow speed of the motor as it on 125 volts but what harm will extensive running do to it if any?

All Century skeletal fans appeared to originally (How I love that word!) have had STEEL screws at each end of the cage struts. (Send me your discarded steel screws if you have replaced them with shiny brass. I do need ONE steel cage strut screw if you have an extra).

Some motor tags have a black oxide background (the black does not look like paint) but some look as if they were always all-brass including early and later badges so not sure what the story is there. Motor tags vary from one model to another slightly in size and arrangement of lettering.

Cage badge should have black background I think but not positive.

Felt color? Some fans have old black felt but one has very faded and old looking medium green. If you know what these fans came with please post.

Speed markings; early cast iron base fans are marked OFF 1 2 3 4 5
Later (all?) steel base fans have OFF 1 2 3 4 SLOW

The cast CENTURY name at the top of the rear motor bell shows no hint of gold paint on the letters on any original fans I recall seeing. Were the letters ever highlighted with gold paint as I see on some restorations?

Oscillators come in quite a few variations with different oscillator wheels below the gearbox, different rear oilers, and even different "stuff" (parts) in the motors. Getting all the different variations together presents a challange but that's what's needed to note all the differences.

So, in addition to winning an S-3 oscillator today on ebay, I've been looking over more S-3s. Fun fans with many details to ponder and wonder about. I don't think much has been written about the S-3 and its different incarnations but you don't have to look very long to find a different one.

Last edited on Fri Oct 11th, 2013 02:25 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 09:21 am
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Brad Chaney
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Wow Steve, you've got to post pictures of your's and Bill's Skeletals someday. I have never seen a cast base nor do my two have a band around the bell, but they are both oscillators. I am afraid I was bidding against you for that really sweet 12 inch. I can't wait to see if you think that green felt is original, it looked that way from the pictures. Have you ever seen the rear oil cup like that before? I would have guessed they were all flip caps in the back, can you post a picture of the ball ports you saw on Bill's fans? The bluing for the screws and other small parts makes sense as they were uniformly black but the coloring was too thin to be paint. I would love to see pictures of the different types of oscillators as I have not seen that yet. Likewise I would love to see the red fiber handle on the cast base. Thanks for all the great info and congratulations on winning a really clean Century.

Brad.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 05:23 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Brad,
The spring ball oil port is shown in the first photo top of this thread. It's pretty common on S-3s. The top mounted oiler/grease cup on yesterday's ebay fan is not uncommon either. Bill has one. By the way, he may have an S-3 or two to sell. Here is a photo of Fred Berry's S-4 and S-3, both with cast iron base. All S-4s are so equipped but I don't think there were any iron base oscillators. I've got an iron base S-3 that is in need of a restoration and the rotor is frozen up. Sorry we couldn't both have one of these ebay Century oscillators; it really looked clean. Just hope the seller can get it to me without damage.

Attached Image (viewed 2427 times):

Fred Berry S-4:S-3 early.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 05:26 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Red fiber handle on Steve the Birthday Guy's S-4 Mi iron base S-3 also has the fiber and, I think, the same switch.

Attached Image (viewed 2674 times):

S4CenturySwitch.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 05:33 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Another of red fiber switch handle.

Attached Image (viewed 2708 times):

S4CenturyRearSwitchOpening.jpg

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 04:51 am
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Steve Stephens
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Century 12" 30 cycle S-3 running for 40 minutes at 125 volts. Motor surface gets very warm but not so you can't keep your hand on it.
Motor is rated for 110 v. Run on high speed where the speed and air movement is very low (as is the noise) but still useful.
110 v. .80 amps dropping to .76 when warm.
125 v. .93 amps dropping to .88
138 v. 1.03 amps dropping to .98

Century 12" S-3 oscillator ran for about 20+ minutes at 100v. then increased to 110v. for at least 10 minutes. Motor surface is slightly warm, much less heat generated than 30 cycle fan above. Increasing voltage to 110 made a noticeable DECREASE in motor temperature ending up barely warm. Very warm motor on 30 cycle fan could have been partially due to low airflow over motor as speed was very low when run on high speed due to the motor frequency.
Motor rated for 110 v. Both fans freshly oiled.
100 v. .56 amps
110 v. .56 amps
125 v. .61 amps
Not much change in amp. draw with extended running.

I've never run any Century skeletal fans for any time before. My impression? Very nice running and sounding fans. Quiet too. Yeah, I like 'em!

Last edited on Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 06:43 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 07:51 am
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Brad Chaney
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Thanks for the pics Steve.  I love the cast base.  It's now added to my list of "must find someday"!

I have no idea about the issues that could arise from using the 30 cycle fan on 60 cycles but will try and look it up in the Hawkins books and see if they address it. 

On the pics you said you think the red handle switch looks the same as the S4, are they interchangeable?  Have you ever heard of anyone that has checked the Ohms from John's information in the reference section for the S3 against the S4?

The big 16" Century is the only one that I have ever run for any period of time and it's really a great fan, lots of weight and power, yet very smooth running.  The 16 never seems to get very warm.  I am working this weekend but will try to get the wattage and temps from the IR thermometer next week.

Tell Bill if he wants to sell his Centurys, I can be there in 12 hours.  Thanks Brad.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 04:50 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Hi There!

Well, so far, the stator came back and was installed in the housing... I used the heat and cold method to get the stator back in.

I wired it up for a test, and lo and behold, the darn thing works! But, and there's a but to everything it seems, the armature rattled around quite a bit. As I suspected, the bearings and shaft are very worn.

The shaft may have to be replaced and I don't relish the thought, or expense, of that. The electric motor shop near my house (turns out, they send stator  work to Eurton, too!) examined both items and may have bearings to fit. They carry alot of old NOS parts that can be machined to fit and the old motor is relatively easy to work on.

Anyway, here's a few pics for you... enjoy, and thanks for staying in touch.

Attached Image (viewed 2322 times):

fan pics sept 2009 011.jpg

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 04:53 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Here's another pic of my motor

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fan pics sept 2009 007.jpg

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 04:56 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Shot of switch/x-former rigged to test motor.... oh, and don't panic, the 3-in-1 oil can is only used for cleaning and removing rust.

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fan pics sept 2009 002.jpg

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 07:03 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 I'd replace the front bushing first and see where that got me. The oil wick from the oiler below will actually run a groove in the steel shaft and that's only in the middle of the bushing. No effect on rotor position in the stator from that groove.

 Next , If Steve Stephens doesn't have a research project , the s-4 & s-3 fans are all serially numbered & it would be neat to know the prevalence of the different oscillators. Is anyone researching Century ? If not what say you Steve ???

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 Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 09:38 pm
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Brad Chaney
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 "If not what say you Steve ???"

Please!:clap:

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 Posted: Sun Oct 4th, 2009 04:27 am
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Steve Stephens
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Sure, I'd be happy to oblige. Please ship me your Century 5 speed fans. I'll pay the shipping and give the fans a good home.

OK... Steve Cunningham has been researching the S-4s and I don't want to step on his desire to do that unless he says ok. I'll check with him. I think that ALL 5 speed Centurys should be researched together. I have no desire to include other than the 5 speed models and pot metal makes me go into seizures. I actually do have one three speed Century; an S-1 non-oscillator on which the only pot metal part is the neck and it's in good condition. Motor is all stamped steel but the similar oscillator has pot metal in the osc. gearbox.

In the meantime, tell me what kind of info you'd all like me to gather and I'll start a new thread when I get the details tabulated so we can gather all pertinent into the first time around.

I would think something like this:

"Type" or "Frame" S3 or S4
Size: 12" or 16"
Model: 14, 15, or no model # listed on tag
Serial No.
Voltage
Cycles
Oscillator or Stationary
2 or 4 bolts through motor
Oscillator style (I'll have to post some photos showing the different types      and some of you can problem help in showing me what's out there)
Brass or steel oil cups
Top oiler: spring ball or GITS flip top
Top mounted rear oil cup? On some oscillators only.
Base: cast or stamped steel
Starting switch or not?
Switch handle: red fiber, brass, steel
Split Phase or not? (Is it only the split phase motors that have a start switch?)
Any unusual features? Fred Berry's very early S-4, for instance, has a knurled knob instead of a wing nut to adjust tension for the tilt.

That may be too many details but I think they are all important. What else to add? I'm still a bit new to Centurys but they are a great fan that should be in most collections of brass and iron fans.

Steve

Last edited on Sun Oct 4th, 2009 07:21 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 01:20 am
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Gil Solorzano
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We checked the shaft and it is very worn all around... we're going to see what new bearings might do, but may have to replace shaft.

Has anyone ever replaced a shaft? If so, some info, technique, etc would be welcome.

Thanks folks


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 Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 09:26 am
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Brad Chaney
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Steve

I have been thinking about the 30hz Century that you had and did some reading. What I have read makes it look like if you increased the voltage to twice what it is rated for it would run fine on 60hz.  This seems very strange to me but appears to be true, by maintaining the same voltage to frequency ratio it will balance the flux in the motor. 

I am not sure what effect this would have on the switching and power cords but with only 200v-220v there should not be significant voltage leakage.

Are there any EEs out there that have worked on this problem before?

Let us know if you give it a try. Brad

http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/electrical/articles/46495.aspx

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/30196

http://www.kropla.com/frequency.htm

 

 

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 Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 05:20 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Brad, that is some interesting information in the links which I read. I would like to hear from others who are experienced in motors and electricity. It seems that there are many variables and if this goes up, that goes down, but how much and making how much heat and etc.

Being as how my the Century fan in question is a whopping HALF of the cycles of our house current I wonder if there might be other problems than given in the examples between 50 and 60 cycles.

Though the fan did not get as hot as many fans do when running on the designed Hertz and voltage, it still got a lot hotter than a 60 cycle Century does and that worries me if I were to use the fan for extended running. Maybe I have a nice display fan instead of a reliable daily runner.

Brad had made a comment to me about my avatar so here's the story:
That photo was of me c.1972 on my new (for me) 1953 Norton Manx which I would ride on the street from time to time. I sold it about 15 years ago or more. The "pipe" was a large cylinder phonograph horn stuck in the bike's megaphone. I didn't ride it that way but, had the horn's small end been opened up, I bet it would have sounded terrific. I happened to have also collected early phonographs at the time so staged that photo as I was loading the bike and a ton (literally) into my VW camper for the trip from my Dad's in NY to home in CA. I ended up having to ship by moving van 500 lbs. of Edison cylinder phonographs and, still, the springs on my VW were bottomed out. I also had a stack of large phonograph horns in the passenger seat which meant I could not see out the right window or mirror. Quite a trip but the find of a large phono collection was exciting at the time.

Last edited on Tue Oct 6th, 2009 05:29 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:51 am
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Gil Solorzano
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Finally! It's finished!

After two years, lots of fits and starts, it's done! (Whew)

When I started this project, I wrestled with the idea of stripping the finish and powder coating the whole thing. But, no, as much of the original finish should be saved. On the top of the motor housing, almost a quarter of the enamel had peeled off. I cleaned the bare area, primed then painted. After drying thoroughly, polishing with automotive cleaners and waxes did the trick!

Check out the photos

Century S3 Model 15 with occillator and stamped steel base. Yes, it's a five speed.

Enjoy

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fan pics sept 2009 022.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:53 am
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Gil Solorzano
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Another view

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:55 am
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Gil Solorzano
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and another

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fan pics sept 2009 027.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:57 am
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Gil Solorzano
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and one more

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fan pics sept 2009 026.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 03:31 am
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Steve Stephens
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Gil, you've come a long way with that fan in the past few months. What did you end up needing to do to fix the sloppy bearing/shaft situation?

I like that you've tried to save the original paint. There is a way to fill in areas that are missing paint so that you won't see those areas. I think it takes filling with several (many?) layers of paint than sanding to smooth the paint patched areas followed with a polishing. Some of the fans I've seen look very good.

Century fans seem to have led a hard life which makes me wonder if most were bought for industrial and other than household use. Would families want such a beast using a scaled down version of an industrial design motor in their parlor?

Your fan has the same oscillator as mine but there is at least one different version that I am not especially familiar with yet. The oscillator wheel is different as well as the linkage to the base. I have an oscillator on the way to me that has the top mounted oil cup (or is it a grease cup?) but I think it's otherwise pretty much the same as yours and my other one. Thanks for posting your photos. I like to see this thread added to and hope to get around to collecting skeletal serial numbers and other info.

Anyone have a 16' Century S-3 skeletal they can post photos of the blade?

Edit 8-1-13Another thread about Century fans to add to this one:

http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=28618&forum_id=1&jump_to=232397#p232397

Last edited on Fri Aug 2nd, 2013 05:55 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 01:48 pm
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Fred Berry
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Steve, about 6 yearz ago I won a 16" skeletal off eBay. I never unpacked either of the two boxes it came in. When I get to my storage, I'll find it and unpack to take a photo of the blade. I have had this bad habit of buying fans and tucking them away for a later day. Lord knows what I'll find in my storage unit when I finally go through it completely!

Gil, was that you I met at SMOOT Lumber some yearz ago? Were you a friend of Chris Lockard? He introduced a friend of his to me that lived in Lorton, but I did not remember his name!

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 09:10 pm
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Gil Solorzano
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Hey There!

If you look closely, my paint work is not perfect... yes I've seen some of the fans done by your members and they're absolutely awesome. My craft is getting better as I go along.

The machinist at the motor shop told me the wear was mostly where the wick carves a groove in the spindle shaft, but that the outsides are okay. The shaft had almost mo play when reassembled and it spins very smoothly.

So far, I've run it for several hours and found it's relatively quiet, cool to the touch and pushes alotta air. Great!

Well, now I have a Emerson that is really a project... it's missing valuable parts. I may just offer it to members who need a parts fan.... we'll see.

Glad you enjoyed the pics....

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 11:19 pm
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Randy Rohr
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Gil,

Let me know if I can help. I'm just up the road from you in Clifton.

Randy Rohr

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