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 Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 08:18 pm
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John Bonkoske
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I have 2 Emerson 77646-AS fans - identical except that one has indented/stamped speeds (OFF 1 2 3) and the other has blank squares where OFF 1 2 3 can faintly be seen as if printed or painted on, but flat and not stamped.  Which is older?  Why the change?

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 12:04 am
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Steve Stephens
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I don't know which is older John but was recently made aware of the difference you speak of. Is there a small 2 digit number on the motor tags on your fans, probably near the lower lefthand corner? Add 20 to those numbers and that's the year the fan was made according to sources who seem to be correct. What did you find? And what material is each base made of. Die cast or cast iron?

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 01:32 am
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John Bonkoske
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Well I'll be....  Thanks for the info, Steve.

1949 and 1953 are the years of these Emersons if the "add 20" is correct from the numbers on the plates.

The 1949 model does NOT have the stamped  speed numbers and the 1953 model DOES have the stamped numbers.  Both seem to be die cast bases - and as I said, identical in all ways except the speed stamps and one other thing:  the 1949 has a thicker headwire and a bushing plate on the motor for an easy headwire change; the 1953 model has a thinner headwire and no bushing plate.  Probably cost-cutting measures as the years of manufacture went on.

As so many of us revere these fans, I picked up a second one for regular use when Chicago displays its warmer weather.  The 1949 model year fan is literally and truly silent - no sound - perfect for sleeping; the 1953 model has that internal "ticking" or "rattling" sound that I've heard others speak of - especially once it has been running a while - of which I cannot eradicate, try as I might.  Both fans use nary a trace of electricity.  I do know that by 1955 the capacitor motors were discontinued and the same model fan used about twice as much electricity for the same output.

 

Last edited on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 01:36 am by John Bonkoske

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 11:52 am
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Kim Steiner
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Interesting. I have two 77646AS fans, and both have the "29" and DECALS for the speeds. I think that both are all-original; at least I have no reason to suspect otherwise. I must admit that when I found that both my fans were supposedly made in 1949 according to the putative year-of-manufacture formula, I began to have some small suspicion about its accuracy. How many have 29s and how many have other numbers? Kim

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 12:45 pm
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John Bonkoske
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Yes, my "29" (AKA 1949) fan also has the decals, and my "33" (AKA 1953) has the stamped numbers in the base. 

It would be interesting to see what others tag numbers people possess.  Does this "add 20 years" number apply to other Emersons as well?

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 01:43 pm
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Fred Berry
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My 77646AN has "28" on the bottom of the tag...I assume it was made in 1948? The base has the indented squares with no number 1-2-3-off. Wrinkle finish paint, I assume is what the "AN" suffix means...

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 04:31 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Which of the bullet back 77646/8 fans have a cast iron base and which have the diecast (non-magnetic) base? Did Emerson use cast iron on the earlier ones then change completely and until the end to diecast?

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 05:48 pm
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John Bonkoske
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OK - for fun I went and documented nearly all Emerson's I own and applied the "formula"  Here's what I came up with:

3140-B     (16) = 1936

79648-SD  (35) = 1955

79646-AP-G  (23) = 1943  (Government issued fan)

77646-SL   (38) = 1958

6250  (16) = 1936  CAST IRON BASE

2650-G  (31) = 1951  (Green in color)

2650-B  (21) = 1941

Emerson Jr.  (18) = 1928 CAST IRON BASE

Emerson 10" Osc. (10) = 1930  CAST IRON BASE

Emerson Jr. (4) = 1924  CAST IRON BASE

6250-F (28) = 1948  CAST IRON BASE

8" Seagull  (14) = 1934

10" Seagull (14) 1934

6250-L (33) = 1953  CAST IRON BASE

77648-AS (33) = 1953  CAST IRON BASE  (NP 2240)

77646-AS (29) = 1949

77646-AS (33) = 1953

All of the above seem to absolutely track with Mfr. dates from catalogues, etc.

Now, with some older Emmy's, there were the following "NP" numbers, which I don't know the formula - or perhaps it is where they were manufactured (city or plant??):

19645  NP 196

19644  NP 114

Silver Swan 5460  NP 819

27666   NP 196

53646  NP 35

27668  NP 196

27648  NP 196

27646 NP 196

Thoughts?


Last edited on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 05:52 pm by John Bonkoske

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 Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 06:01 pm
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Steve Stephens
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John,
An interesting list. As for the NP on the motor plates I would think it's just a batch number; a batch of plates made up for a group of fans. Each different batch gets a new NP number. Just my thought.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 12:37 pm
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Kim Steiner
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Most of my other Emersons are lined up on top of the kitchen cabinets, and I'm not ambitious enough to fetch them down to check the plates. But a 19645 that is on the counter has "NP 196" and a 73648 upstairs has just "NO. 196".  I'm beginning to think the date code theory advanced by "sources who seem to be correct" is not true. Why would Emerson use this position on some models to code the date of manufacture while on others the number is clearly not a date code? Another Kim

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:52 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Talking with Bill Voigt last night he supposes the NP number on Emerson motor tags are not a batch number for a batch of tags purchased but more of a part number for each type of Emerson motor tag. After looking over many of my Emerson fans I agree.

NP number:
33 Long tag Emerson going back to at least Type 2010 and probably before.
38 Long tag Trojan
114 Rectangular Emerson w/6 data spaces (24645 BB/BC)
133 Rectangular Emerson DC (29045)
196 Rectangular Emerson w/5 data spaces (24645 BB/SC)
2233 Golden Jubilee 6250-H
2424 Golden Jubilee 6250-K

For each tag that is different in some notable way such as the number of spaces to stamp numbers or where a tag is made with different information that is not later stamped on it each tag seems to have a different NP number progressing to higher numbers on later fans.

Would just a COLOR difference in a tag, such as on the various 77646 models over the years, mean a different NP number? The NP numbers are usually in the bottom part of the right side of the motor tag.

Kim, maybe what you see as a "NO" is actually an "NP"? Many of the numbers are so small and somewhat indistinctly etched as to make them hard to read. I needed a 10x magnifier to read some. I don't see any connection between what we see as a "date code" on the tags vs the NP number.

Last edited on Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:55 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 07:19 pm
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Kim Steiner
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Steve:  No, it is clearly "NO." (with a period). I double-checked with a magnifying glass because the same possibility occurred to me.  Kim

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 07:30 pm
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Kim Steiner
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Oh, and about your last sentence, perhaps there is no connection. But the number is in roughly the same place. Furthermore, it seems strange that Emerson would choose to put a tag part number (if that's what it is) but no date code on some models, and a date code but no tag part number on others.

Anyway, I'll remain skeptical about this "date code" until others report in and we find a goodly spread of "date codes" over a range of years that sound reasonable. So far, we have heard about three 77646AS fans with a "date code" of 29 and one of the same model but a slightly different base with a "date code" of 33. Maybe it's code for a model variation.

Kim

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 08:11 pm
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John Bonkoske
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As stated above, the NP numbers and "year" numbers had two distinct purposes - neither cross over to the other; both internal to Emerson for some form of tracking.

Though we can never be sure of the "add 20 years formula", as I earlier stated and demonstrated with a listing of my fans above - the forumula number + 20 does track to the many catalogues that I possess regarding year of manufacture - numbers which exist on every fan that I possess later than 1924.  To wit, earliest number that is on a tag for me is "4" -- add 20 and 1924 is the exact year of manufacture for the first Emerson Junior.  "14" + 20 years is the exact year of manufacture for the Seagulls, etc.  Obviously, fans earlier than 1920 do not have these numbers by which to use the formula - which begs this question:  What happened in 1920 that began these numbers on Emerson's fans?  Change in administration? Warranties began? Company went pulic?  A decision to finally track year of manufacture? 

Again, in my fan listing above, the formula tracks perfectly.  In fact, on two of my fans (and using my 10X magnifier) there is a punch stamp OVER the formula number which suggests that the plate was older than the fan and Emerson wanted to ensure the correct year of manufacture e.g. the plate had a printed "34" with a punch stamp over the number 4 with a 5 -- suggesting that the particular fan in question was made not in 1954, but 1955 -- and Emerson wanted to make sure the date was right -- perhaps for warranty reasons, or whatever...

My opinion is that a large enough sampling will reveal ultimate truth to Emerson's coding. Emmy owners -- check those fans.

Last edited on Sat Jan 30th, 2010 08:34 pm by John Bonkoske

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 Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 10:08 pm
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Steve Stephens
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John Bonkoske wrote:
As stated above, the NP numbers and "year" numbers had two distinct purposes - neither cross over to the other; both internal to Emerson for some form of tracking.
...on two of my fans (and using my 10X magnifier) there is a punch stamp OVER the formula number which suggests that the plate was older than the fan and Emerson wanted to ensure the correct year of manufacture e.g. the plate had a printed "34" with a punch stamp over the number 4 with a 5 -- suggesting that the particular fan in question was made not in 1954, but 1955 -- and Emerson wanted to make sure the date was right -- perhaps for warranty reasons, or whatever...

I noticed the overstamp also on a pair of similar Golden Jubilee fans Type 6250K2. One's date code is 33, the other is 32 with a stamped 3 over the two. Another Jubilee, 6250H has date code of 28.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 12:54 pm
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Fred Berry
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I am assuming that this date code only works on modern Emersons and not early ones or Trojans? When did these dates start appearing on Emerson tags?

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 02:44 pm
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Steve Stephens
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There are no date codes on earlier Emmys. The earliest they could have started is 1920 (0 + 20 = 1920). I had several Emerson Jrs. with single digit codes. Good question that should have an answer. Geoff, can you go outa when it's not too cold and get us an answer among all your Emersons?

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 03:45 pm
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John Bonkoske
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John Bonkoske wrote:  Obviously, fans earlier than 1920 do not have these numbers by which to use the formula - which begs this question:  What happened in 1920 that began these numbers on Emerson's fans?  Change in administration? Warranties began? Company went pulic?  A decision to finally track year of manufacture? 

My opinion is that a large enough sampling will reveal ultimate truth to Emerson's coding. Emmy owners -- check those fans.

As I earlier wrote:  Among us perhaps someone knows some history at Emerson that may have begun this formulaic decision...

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