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A beautiful Jandus Ceiling  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 12:57 am
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John Evans
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before but this is really something.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251255946825&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:41 am
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Jim Kovar
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Nearly up to $3.4K with nine days to go.

:wondering: I wonder how many "request to end the
auction" low ball offers the seller has gotten?

Attached Image (viewed 1127 times):

_T2eC16NHJHgE9n0yEi3MBR_3G5yj4Q_60_57.jpeg

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:42 am by Jim Kovar

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:45 am
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Tim Marks
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Yeah pretty insane. I would expect people who know about that fan to understand ebay a bit better. Can't wait to see the other 25 last second bids come in. Pretty cool auction either way.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:10 am
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Steve Stephens
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a***m looks pretty determined to own that fan unless he's a shill bidder. In any case the seller is on the happy end of the power cord.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:12 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Tim Marks wrote:
I would expect people who know about that fan to understand ebay a bit better. Can't wait to see the other 25 last second bids come in. Pretty cool auction either way.

No, the more experienced bidders would be right in bidding high and early in this case, to foil the under-the-table low-ball cheaters and rightfully keep it on ebay. If it weren't for those bids that are there now, you might see the auction "mysteriously end" in a day or two.

It's easy for "one of them" to outright offer $1000 or $2000 with comparatively low or no bids on the last day of the auction, but this high, early bidding thwarts that.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:16 am
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Tim Marks
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
Tim Marks wrote:
I would expect people who know about that fan to understand ebay a bit better. Can't wait to see the other 25 last second bids come in. Pretty cool auction either way.

No, the more experienced bidders would be right in bidding high and early in this case


I hear your point, but the seller clearly knows what he has.

T

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:25 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Tim Marks wrote:
I hear your point, but the seller clearly knows what he has.

T


Sure, he might know he has a "good one", but does he have any idea of $$$ value? Doubt it. There isn't exactly an established price in play here. How many of these have sold either here or on ebay in the past five years? Two??
An inferior, though restored, model (with GE motors) was sold here two years ago for $7,500. Makes the $3.4K seem "not quite there", eh?

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:33 am by Nicholas Denney

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:32 am
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Russ Huber
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
An inferior, though restored, model (with GE motors) was sold here two years ago.

So who manufactured the motors on this example?

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:42 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Who? So, you didn't figure this out yet?

Russ Huber wrote:

You know what drives me nuts worse than I already am there Loren? I am convinced those weird looking AC split phase motors Jandus/AB were using were made in Cleveland...but not by Jandus/AB.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 02:50 am
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Russ Huber
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
Who? So, you didn't figure this out yet?

Russ Huber wrote:

You know what drives me nuts worse than I already am there Loren? I am convinced those weird looking AC split phase motors Jandus/AB were using were made in Cleveland...but not by Jandus/AB.


Educate me...who made them? I am all eyes. Oh, and by the way...what was inferior about the gyro previously sold with GE motors?:wondering:

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:01 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Russ Huber wrote:
Oh, and by the way...what was inferior about the gyro previously sold with GE motors?:wondering:

Are not the GE motored Jandi more common and therefore worth less? Hence "inferior"? Just checking... :up:

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:05 am
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Tim Marks
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
Are not the GE motored Jandi more common and therefore worth less? Hence "inferior"? Just checking... :up:


Since when does inferior imply more common or less valuable? Use your words.

T

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:07 am by Tim Marks

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:10 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Tim Marks wrote:
Since when does inferior imply more common or less valuable? Use your words.

T


How about... "inferior collectability"?

Russ, how do you feel about that motor maker being in Ohio, still? Ever come across a directory listing all of the motor manufacturers in Cleveland at the time?

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:11 am
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Charles Tedrick
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Considering how I think its going to look with a coat of wax on it I think it might hit the 10k mark. :shock:
That thing looks like museum quality to me.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:18 am
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Michael Weber
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Steve Stephens wrote: ..... the seller is on the happy end of the power cord.
That's poetry, Steve.

Mike

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:24 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Tim Marks wrote:
I hear your point, but the seller clearly knows what he has.

T


Sure, he might know he has a "good one", but does he have any idea of $$$ value? Doubt it. There isn't exactly an established price in play here. How many of these have sold either here or on ebay in the past five years? Two??
An inferior, though restored, model (with GE motors) was sold here two years ago for $7,500. Makes the $3.4K seem "not quite there", eh?

He listed it 10 days.  He's been around the block a few times with ePay auctions.

What makes you think all off ePay offers are lowball?

I propose that many offers are close to retail.  There could be someone willing to pay 5 figures to NOT have to wait and take their chances at the end.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:25 am
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Steve Stephens
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Yes, it's shocking how high and how fast how high this fan is reaching.

But Nick said it well; that lots of or high bids do encourage an auction to keep on going and may foil those trying to buy before the auction ends.

Actually, that's a very nice looking Jandus and I can see it going much higher and someone will end up with a great fan in these days of plenty of tin fans on ebay but few real quality fans.

I knew a guy would would make high offers (higher than the item would normally bring) to have a BIN put on rare items. I guess that was his way of assuring a much better chance of getting the item which he did more often than some of us liked.

More often I see messages to end an auction offering much less than the item does end up at.

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:34 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:30 am
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Jeff Whitfield
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Even with the grim preserving the fan's finish, as the seller insists, I see plenty of rough areas that make me wonder about surfaces. Hard to tell, IMO, if the crud shored up the paint or masks deterioration. The fan may/may not need a paint job.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:38 am
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Russ Huber
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Go easy dudes.:D Those Jandus/AB gyros evolved. That GE split phase was a hot Tamale when it hit the market. Bernard Stowe was using GE AC cake motors prior to that on a percentage of the gyros. GE AC cake motors are what?....AC shaded pole...weak starting. Bernie was stuck with Jandus machinery set up for what?.....AC OR DC BRUSH ball motors, AC or DC depending on how you wired them. When Bernie heard about GE with their SLAP BANG WHAM starting power split phase motors....Bernie got tears of joy in his eyes. Now Bernie could slap an AC SELF STARTING LOW MAINTENANCE POWERFUL motor on his gyros! Yet Jandus maintained the DC ball motors into their absorption in late 10 to AB....and then some.:D

Now...Jandus maintained being Jandus after AB gobbled them up. The only difference to the best of my knowledge is AB was the main office for both. Now...who made those weird split phase motors that are on the ebay gyro......remains sorta a mystery.:wondering: It may of been Jandus....and then again they may of outsourced from another motor manufacturer. Keep in mind...the GE split phase BMYS phased out to the three wire head cord BMY. GE would of had to make the split phase BMY fan motors special order for the Jandus gyros after GE phased them out of their desk fan product line.

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:43 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:54 am
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Russ Huber
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Did Bernie work something out with GE to continue purchasing AC split phase motors from them?!? Think about it....GE dumped their line of split phase desk fan motors for the 10 season. You don't find Jandus tag AC split phase motors like the ebay gyro has, only AB. AB absorbed Jandus late 10.

If GE drops their BMY split phase desk fan motors...maybe a design change was necessary for Jandus to continue to purchase them from GE?

The tags on the weird split phase motors never change....they look like GE tags. No need for the GE patents on the motor tag, as they no longer apply to the weird motors. hmmmmmmm

Attached Image (viewed 994 times):

AB Rotor 1.jpg

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:55 am
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Russ Huber
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Attached Image (viewed 983 times):

Jandus2.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:55 am
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Russ Huber
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Attached Image (viewed 968 times):

Jandus3.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:56 am
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Russ Huber
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Attached Image (viewed 961 times):

Jandus4.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:56 am
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Russ Huber
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Jandus5.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:57 am
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Russ Huber
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C-frame

Attached Image (viewed 964 times):

Jandus6.jpg

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 05:02 am
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Russ Huber
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I bet GE made those weird AC motors for AB/JANDUS after their desk fan split phase motors were off the market. The question is....if so, Bernie would of had to design them for GE to manufacture....I would think?

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 05:03 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 05:17 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Russ Huber wrote: I bet GE made those weird AC motors for AB/JANDUS after their desk fan split phase motors were off the market. The question is....if so, Bernie would of had to design them for GE to manufacture....I would think?
I don't know motors, so I can't comment on this aspect.

I do note that all the GE fans in the gallery have NP numbered tags and none on the AB have NP numbers.

You know what that suggests to me ...

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 05:57 am
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Russ Huber
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They are not GE motors. They very well may have been made by GE... specific for AB/JANDUS. Thus the tags would be generic, and directed to AB.

The things to focus on are.....GE dumps the centrifugal start desk fan motor just before the Jandus absorption. GE maintains the BMY motor design in 10 with phase shift starting. Jandus AC induction motor gyros beyond the GE cakes used are split phase. Bernie must of wanted to maintain the split phase motors for the AC gyros.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 06:07 am
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Steve Stephens
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Note that the recent high bidder a***m has had his bids retracted with a high bid of $3400.

About the Jandus motor tags:
I am not sure that the tags were made or provided by GE to or for Jandus or even if the tags came from the same source. They are very similar but also have some differences; GE tags seem to have the serial numbers stamped a digit at a time by hand while the Jandus tags have serial numbers appearing to have been stamped by machine, the whole number at once.

The finish on the Jandus tags is somewhat lighter than the GE tags.

The first "NP" number on GE fans may be on the 1905 pancake. My 1904 does not have a NP number on the motor tag.

If GE made the AB motor I would think that the oilers on that motor would match the GE oilers but they are different.

None of this means much but thought I would post some things that I noticed.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:18 pm
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Russ Huber
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Steve Stephens wrote:
Note that the recent high bidder a***m has had his bids retracted with a high bid of $3400.

About the Jandus motor tags:
I am not sure that the tags were made or provided by GE to or for Jandus or even if the tags came from the same source. They are very similar but also have some differences; GE tags seem to have the serial numbers stamped a digit at a time by hand while the Jandus tags have serial numbers appearing to have been stamped by machine, the whole number at once.

The finish on the Jandus tags is somewhat lighter than the GE tags.

The first "NP" number on GE fans may be on the 1905 pancake. My 1904 does not have a NP number on the motor tag.

If GE made the AB motor I would think that the oilers on that motor would match the GE oilers but they are different.

None of this means much but thought I would post some things that I noticed.



I spent a small chunk of time one day trying to nail the patent for this unique centrifugal mechanism in the strange motor from AB/Jandus. I failed to do so. In the Google electrical books dating after the Jandus absorption of late 10 I tried to find an image of this strange fan motor from AB/Jandus. I failed to do so. I now question whether I was right that GE made them.

But at least I tried to find the answer, and will continue to do so. Because simply I have to know. :D What the fan sells for on ebay I guess is not my problem, or for that matter my business. I am not bidding on it. So I won't waste to much time researching that one. I have seen a few of them for real. I just don't have any room to hang one.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:18 pm
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Ron Jeter
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I think the Gyro would clean up and would not have to be repainted - wold probably take some time and effort, but would be well worth the effort.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 01:21 pm
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Russ Huber
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Ron Jeter wrote:
I think the Gyro would clean up and would not have to be repainted - wold probably take some time and effort, but would be well worth the effort.

I agree Ron, that one would polish up nice. The blades need some attention for sure. Have a great day!

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:18 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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For what it's worth, AB was manufacturing their own fractional horses motors by the thousands by the end of WW1. I don't know when they started though. The guy was Yates who was at AB from 05 till 20.. He didn't start right away on the motors so it would have to be sometime after 05 that he launched their line of fractional horse motors. One other thing to throw out is that Ron Fanta had said or thought that AB and GE had some type of arrangment in regards to motors and also lighting. Maybe, make us some motors and we'll make some lights?

Last edited on Sun Apr 7th, 2013 03:24 pm by Loren Haroldson

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:50 pm
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Jeff Whitfield
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For $3K+, I would hope a bidder would pick a few suspect areas from the photos and ask the seller to wipe away some crud to check out the paint and make sure everything is o.k.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2013 04:55 pm
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Russ Huber
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Loren Haroldson wrote:
For what it's worth, AB was manufacturing their own fractional horses motors by the thousands by the end of WW1. I don't know when they started though. The guy was Yates who was at AB from 05 till 20.. He didn't start right away on the motors so it would have to be sometime after 05 that he launched their line of fractional horse motors. One other thing to throw out is that Ron Fanta had said or thought that AB and GE had some type of arrangment in regards to motors and also lighting. Maybe, make us some motors and we'll make some lights?

Jandus obviously had the tooling and machinery for the roundball variety fan motor early on. Being Bernie used the same ball motor design for AC or DC operation shows how confined they were to manufacture other fan motors early on. Bernie found his pot of gold not in his fan motors as much as that silly spinning gyro. Think about it...the gyro was marketed to BUSINESSES that could AFFORD to buy them. Table fans were another story. The average Joe would have to rob the local bank to get one of Bernie's desk fans.

Must of been in 05-06 Bernie recognized an AC induction motor of LOW MAINTENANCE was the ticket for a spinning fan up on the ceiling. When Bernie started buying the split phase AC motors from GE in 08-09 I bet the AC Jandus ball motors started to phase out. Bernie would of still needed the DC roundballs, they could manufacture their own.

Images of Jandus AC fan motors of 11 and 12 still show the GE split phase BMY with 4 bolt pattern. Now....as to whether or not AB/Jandus was still using them in 11-12.......? The book images as we have learned can mean Jack as opposed to what fan motor they were actually using. The question is did Jandus after the absorption get the tooling and machinery to make the weird motors? I can't pin it down yet. I have yet to see a 11-12 Jandus image of an AC split phase with a three stator bolt pattern.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2013 12:57 am
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Jim Kovar
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I wrote: I wonder how many "request to end the
auction" low ball offers the seller has gotten?

Tom Dreesen wrote: What makes you think all off ePay offers are lowball?

I propose that many offers are close to retail.  There could be someone willing to pay 5 figures to NOT have to wait and take their chances at the end.

Retail?  What is "retail" on an item that
is so infrequently offered on ebay?
This gyro is obviously a "new" find.
How many A-B gyros have been offered
on eBay in the past year?  Five years?
Decade?

One who would try to circumvent the process
of an eBay auction to obtain a "not retail"
but rather a rare, rarely offered, highly
desired item, instead of following the "rules,"
thus screwing those who do, would have no
qualms with also trying to screw the seller.

I read this in a book, can't remember the title,
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can
also be trusted with much, and whoever is
dishonest with very little will also be dishonest
with much."  Who would have said such a thing?

Attached Image (viewed 854 times):

eBay.JPG

Last edited on Mon Apr 8th, 2013 06:15 pm by Jim Kovar

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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2013 01:00 am
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Tom Dreesen
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"Retail" is north of 10K. 

You won't  get  any argument out of me.

The seller seems to to know what's what.

We shall see ...

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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2013 08:13 pm
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Jim Kovar
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At $4K with 7 days, 5 hours to go.

I wonder if the seller will pull the
item before the normal end time
of the auction?  A free appraisal?
Maybe wants to clean the crud off
of it, relist and hope for even bigger
money?


Wouldn't be the first time I've seen
this happen.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2013 08:20 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Jim Kovar wrote: At $4K with 7 days, 5 hours to go.

I wonder if the seller will pull the
item before the normal end time
of the auction?  A free appraisal?
Maybe wants to clean the crud off
of it, relist and hope for even bigger
money?


Wouldn't be the first time I've seen
this happen.

Such a jaundiced view of ePay sellers.

There is nothing to suggest this seller is, or has, done anything unethical.  And until the auction is over, the item is the seller's to do with as he pleases.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2013 02:58 pm
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Fred Berry
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Russ, been awhile since I have been here. Was there any other discussion on the manufacture of these AB split phase motors? Definitely not of GE make, these are too far out in left field when compared to GE's BMY style motors of the same period. The AB tags DID change on these, I have seen two distinct types, the 'standard' type as shown in this thread, and another style with upraised areas. Ron Jeter, among one or two others had one if I remember correctly.
I have never seen a split-phase BMY motor on a Jandus, gyro or desk fan or cee frame. Only the reaction-start types, 3-wire headwire with no centrifugal switch. But there may very well be a few. Do you know of any?
I wish we could go back into time to see who made these weird motors. They have the most unusual profile with their skinny stators and long bearing noses on the end bells. I have always been uber-fascinated with these motors and always will be. I remember when that one fellow posted his AB cee frame, the only one I ever saw that used the AB motor...I have (personally) never had any interest in the round ball motors, just not my thing, preferring motors that look like motors! But they are elegant fans nonetheless.
Did Jandus ever make any 6-wingers? I remember seeing what looked like one at a FF a few yearz ago, posted in the magazine.

EDIT: Any history on the desk fan version with the weird motors? I see these more on gyros than on desk fans. I saw a 16" version on eBay a few yearz ago.

Anyone (Steve S) interested in maintaining a database of desk fans with these motors? 

Mine is a 12" stationary.
Tag: flat, standard
Serial# 66677

Last edited on Mon Apr 15th, 2013 03:07 pm by Fred Berry

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