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A beautiful Jandus Ceiling  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2013 05:04 pm
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Russ Huber
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The book page dates March of 09. Strictly Jandus in 09. Notice those GE motors on the gyro. How would those motors start if there is no transformer? :wondering:

Attached Image (viewed 685 times):

Jandus09.jpg

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2013 05:09 pm
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Russ Huber
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This C frame is one of those PBF examples in the gallery. Notice the old cloth appliance wire used for the head cord is the same as the power cord. I kinda doubt that old cloth power wire has a THIRD ground wire in it.:wondering:

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Jandusgallery.jpg

Last edited on Mon Apr 15th, 2013 05:13 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2013 05:12 pm
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Russ Huber
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Fred, do you think you have seen a centrifugal start Jandus gyro and desk fan now?

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2013 11:31 pm
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Jim Kovar
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$4,750 with two and a half hours to go.

Swiss time is running out,...
get your auto-snipers loaded.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 01:55 am
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Tim Marks
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Not much of an exciting ending after all of this hubbub!

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 01:58 am
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Richard Larson
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Personally pretty surprised by that. Definitely expected it to go a good bit more.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:46 pm
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Fred Berry
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Russ Huber wrote: Fred, do you think you have seen a centrifugal start Jandus gyro and desk fan now?

None with the GE motor, no. The GE motor examples you show here are all self starting, non-centrifugal. The Cee frame you show (PDF) is identical to mine, and I have seen that appliance cord like in the photo with three conductors.

If any of these GE motors were split phase, then the struts would be straight on the motor-front, ala Emerson. I have yet to see a GE split-phase motor on a Jandus gyro or desk fan...

I was surprised at the ending price on that cherry gyro...I hope it did not leave the country...If I was bucks-up I would have plopped a $20,000 snipe on it...no kidding...
THAT is a ceiling fan that I would be major interested in...

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:49 pm
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Tim Marks
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Fred Berry wrote:

I was surprised at the ending price on that cherry gyro...I hope it did not leave the country...If I was bucks-up I would have plopped a $20,000 snipe on it...no kidding...
THAT is a ceiling fan that I would be major interested in...


As cool as the Jandus gyro's are and as rare as they are, I'll still take a Westy over a Jandus. I appreciate the Westy's absurdly complicated and troublesome mechanism and its design leaves a lot more room for blinging than a Jandus gyro does.

T

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:53 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Tim Marks wrote: Fred Berry wrote:

I was surprised at the ending price on that cherry gyro...I hope it did not leave the country...If I was bucks-up I would have plopped a $20,000 snipe on it...no kidding...
THAT is a ceiling fan that I would be major interested in...


As cool as the Jandus gyro's are and as rare as they are, I'll still take a Westy over a Jandus. I appreciate the Westy's absurdly complicated and troublesome mechanism and its design leaves a lot more room for blinging than a Jandus gyro does.

T

If I ever drop that kinda money on a ceiling fan, it will be a REAL CF, not some silly desk fans stuck on a pole and hung from the ceiling.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:54 pm
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Tim Marks
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Tom Dreesen wrote:

If I ever drop that kinda money on a ceiling fan, it will be a REAL CF, not some silly desk fans stuck on a pole and hung from the ceiling.


Curious if you could link me to some valuable or desirable "real" ceiling fans? I'm not particularly savy on this part of the hobby and would love to do some research.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:58 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Congrats to the new owner, she's a nice fan.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:17 pm
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Russ Huber
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Fred Berry wrote:
Russ Huber wrote: Fred, do you think you have seen a centrifugal start Jandus gyro and desk fan now?

None with the GE motor, no. The GE motor examples you show here are all self starting, non-centrifugal. The Cee frame you show (PDF) is identical to mine, and I have seen that appliance cord like in the photo with three conductors.

If any of these GE motors were split phase, then the struts would be straight on the motor-front, ala Emerson. I have yet to see a GE split-phase motor on a Jandus gyro or desk fan...


Fred, this book page dates March of 1909. As you can clearly see......the gyro image has GE induction motors on it. Jandus/AB gyros do NOT have speed coils in them. please explain to us all how the motors on this JANDUS AC gyro in "1909" got started? Do keep in mind... GE AC desk fans in 09 were offered ONLY with centrifugal start mechanisms per their own fan motor bulletin. The GE AC motors with 3 wire head cord were offered in the 1910 fan motor bulletin.

So...back to the question. How did these "JANDUS" GE AC gyro motors start in 1909?

Attached Image (viewed 533 times):

Jandus09.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:19 pm
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Fred Berry
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Tim Marks wrote: Fred Berry wrote:

I was surprised at the ending price on that cherry gyro...I hope it did not leave the country...If I was bucks-up I would have plopped a $20,000 snipe on it...no kidding...
THAT is a ceiling fan that I would be major interested in...


As cool as the Jandus gyro's are and as rare as they are, I'll still take a Westy over a Jandus. I appreciate the Westy's absurdly complicated and troublesome mechanism and its design leaves a lot more room for blinging than a Jandus gyro does.

T

Tim, the Westy gyros are cool, but I would prefer a Westy gyro with a pair of 6-pole cast iron tank motors (!!!) I wish they made one of those!!! Or maybe a Westy DC gyro with two DC tank motors powering 6-wing bladesets...I drool at the thought!!!

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:24 pm
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Russ Huber
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By the way, do you want to see a gyro rock at auction, there is a trick to that...it is called straight arm. Far more weiner arm gyros floating around believe it or not. Haroldson name the "WEINER" arm gyro.

Do you REALLY want to see a gyro rock at auction? Look for the name Essex.:D

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:45 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Tim Marks wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:

If I ever drop that kinda money on a ceiling fan, it will be a REAL CF, not some silly desk fans stuck on a pole and hung from the ceiling.


Curious if you could link me to some valuable or desirable "real" ceiling fans? I'm not particularly savy on this part of the hobby and would love to do some research.

A start (as well as discussion of relative values): http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=12413

I believe I could get whatever I asked for this one:




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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:50 pm
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Russ Huber
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Russ Huber wrote:
Do you REALLY want to see a gyro rock at auction? Look for the name Essex.:D

Essex Triad...hit the market 05....Started going belly up as early as 06-07. Dead in the water in 09. Didn't stand a chance against Bernie and the boys at the big "J" fan and arc light factory.

One of these pop up on ebay, get out the koolaid and popcorn. Might be one left in one of the countless piles of junk in Eyeoha.:D

Attached Image (viewed 503 times):

Essex1.jpg

Last edited on Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:59 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:51 pm
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Russ Huber
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Incorporated 04.

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Essex2.png

Last edited on Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:52 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:54 pm
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Russ Huber
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Out of business 09 for being a tax slacker for the last 3 years.:D

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Essex3.png

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 06:54 pm
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Steve Cunningham
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Supposedly one of these was spotted in the Midwest 25-30 years ago. It was described as a three motor gyro.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 07:01 pm
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Russ Huber
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Chuck disagreed with me, but I feel it strongly in my guts your looking at what remains of an Essex in this image.

Look how the fan motors project up OUT of the body below. It appears the ceiling fan assembly below was removed.

Attached Image (viewed 582 times):

gyro.jpg

Last edited on Tue Apr 16th, 2013 07:05 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 02:31 am
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Jeff Whitfield
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All the guys who think this fan is a piece of 24K gold will cringe when really think about it, but ...

The bottom line is that if this fan was worth more then someone would have paid more.

It's not like the fan didn't get enough exposure from this web site.

As an example,
Somebody (not me) asked the seller about cleaning areas of the fan on the same day I raised the issue in a post on this thread.

Last edited on Wed Apr 17th, 2013 02:32 am by Jeff Whitfield

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:05 am
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Tim Marks
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Jeff Whitfield wrote:
All the guys who think this fan is a piece of 24K gold will cringe when really think about it, but ...

The bottom line is that if this fan was worth more then someone would have paid more.

It's not like the fan didn't get enough exposure from this web site.



:up: That said I don't think anyone is cringing. It is what it is.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:12 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Jeff Whitfield wrote: All the guys who think this fan is a piece of 24K gold will cringe when really think about it, but ...

The bottom line is that if this fan was worth more then someone would have paid more.

It's not like the fan didn't get enough exposure from this web site.

As an example,
Somebody (not me) asked the seller about cleaning areas of the fan on the same day I raised the issue in a post on this thread.

I did think it would do better, but it is a single instance and not the end all in terms of value. 

Simply one instance of a sale.
 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:15 am
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Tim Marks
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Tom Dreesen wrote:

Simply one instance of a sale. 


True. But one very public and very bid against example. Items that don't sell that often sell a wide range of prices, but its hard to argue that this one was worth any more or less than what it sold for.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:22 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Tim Marks wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:

Simply one instance of a sale. 


True. But one very public and very bid against example. Items that don't sell that often sell a wide range of prices, but its hard to argue that this one was worth any more or less than what it sold for.

As they say on AR:  "In a well publicized auction ..."

10 days on eBay is not the definition of a well publicized auction.

Some may think we are the end all of the fan world, but we really aren't that well followed outside of club members. 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:26 am
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Tim Marks
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Tom Dreesen wrote:

10 days on eBay is not the definition of a well publicized auction.

Some may think we are the end all of the fan world, but we really aren't that well followed outside of club members. 


:up:

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:31 am
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Charles Tedrick
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I was pretty surprised at the price myself. In hindsight, he probably would have done better if he had given it a good cleaning to show what the real condition is.
Close to 5 g's for an old fan is still pretty good money though. I thought it was going to go for a lot more but I've thought lots things that didnt pan out lol.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 03:43 am
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George Durbin
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I live 40 miles from the national fan museum, didnt know it was there untill i became interested in fans and seen it mentioned in this forum... After nearly 3 year in fans I know of no-one who knows about the museum, and I get around!!


Tom Dreesen wrote:
Tim Marks wrote: Tom Dreesen wrote:

Simply one instance of a sale. 


True. But one very public and very bid against example. Items that don't sell that often sell a wide range of prices, but its hard to argue that this one was worth any more or less than what it sold for.

As they say on AR:  "In a well publicized auction ..."

10 days on eBay is not the definition of a well publicized auction.

Some may think we are the end all of the fan world, but we really aren't that well followed outside of club members. 

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 Posted: Thu Apr 18th, 2013 04:36 pm
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Fred Berry
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Russ Huber wrote: Fred Berry wrote:
Russ Huber wrote: Fred, do you think you have seen a centrifugal start Jandus gyro and desk fan now?

None with the GE motor, no. The GE motor examples you show here are all self starting, non-centrifugal. The Cee frame you show (PDF) is identical to mine, and I have seen that appliance cord like in the photo with three conductors.

If any of these GE motors were split phase, then the struts would be straight on the motor-front, ala Emerson. I have yet to see a GE split-phase motor on a Jandus gyro or desk fan...


Fred, this book page dates March of 1909. As you can clearly see......the gyro image has GE induction motors on it. Jandus/AB gyros do NOT have speed coils in them. please explain to us all how the motors on this JANDUS AC gyro in "1909" got started? Do keep in mind... GE AC desk fans in 09 were offered ONLY with centrifugal start mechanisms per their own fan motor bulletin. The GE AC motors with 3 wire head cord were offered in the 1910 fan motor bulletin.

So...back to the question. How did these "JANDUS" GE AC gyro motors start in 1909?

Hi Russ,

The drawings of both the wire trunnion desk fan and the gyro show GE motors. The wire trunnion is easy to see as the motor has the trunnion screws close to the front end bell, whereas the true non-GE split phase motors used on both the gyros and a few desk fans have the trunnion screws exactly mid-point on the stators.

Also note the struts...They are mounted on the outer perimeter of the end bells and have the end-bends, denoting the 2nd generation BMY motors, those that are self-starting (non-centrifugal)

If these wonderful, old catalogs like yours here had true photos, then we'd know for sure...But back in those daze, photos were still not that popular, so the catalogs used prints like the one above.

The only way to know if there was ever a Jandus fan that used the 1908 GE centrifugal start motors, would be if someone here has one or one shows up sometime. That could definitely happen as the cee frame with the AB motor did...I thought there were none of those either and was proven wrong.

But here I stick to my guns that your catalog prints are showing non-centrifugal, self-starting BMY-style motors. Do any of the ceiling fan people here have a GE-motor'd Jandus Gyro so we can see?

From what I have read here and seen, every single GE centrifugal-start BMY motor had the straight, front-mounted struts, no exceptions.

EDIT: Although the early 1909 catalog stated centrifugal, I'll bet you that the self-starting motors came out before, during or right after your catalog was printed. When GE printed their 1910 catalog, the new motors appeared in them. But they were being used in 1909, as your catalogs clearly show.

Any GE specialists (Kim Don Eckerson)) want to chime in on this?

Last edited on Thu Apr 18th, 2013 04:41 pm by Fred Berry

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 Posted: Thu Apr 18th, 2013 05:19 pm
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Russ Huber
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Fred Berry wrote:
Russ Huber wrote: Fred Berry wrote:
Russ Huber wrote: Fred, do you think you have seen a centrifugal start Jandus gyro and desk fan now?

None with the GE motor, no. The GE motor examples you show here are all self starting, non-centrifugal. The Cee frame you show (PDF) is identical to mine, and I have seen that appliance cord like in the photo with three conductors.

If any of these GE motors were split phase, then the struts would be straight on the motor-front, ala Emerson. I have yet to see a GE split-phase motor on a Jandus gyro or desk fan...


Fred, this book page dates March of 1909. As you can clearly see......the gyro image has GE induction motors on it. Jandus/AB gyros do NOT have speed coils in them. please explain to us all how the motors on this JANDUS AC gyro in "1909" got started? Do keep in mind... GE AC desk fans in 09 were offered ONLY with centrifugal start mechanisms per their own fan motor bulletin. The GE AC motors with 3 wire head cord were offered in the 1910 fan motor bulletin.

So...back to the question. How did these "JANDUS" GE AC gyro motors start in 1909?

Hi Russ,

The drawings of both the wire trunnion desk fan and the gyro show GE motors. The wire trunnion is easy to see as the motor has the trunnion screws close to the front end bell, whereas the true non-GE split phase motors used on both the gyros and a few desk fans have the trunnion screws exactly mid-point on the stators.

Also note the struts...They are mounted on the outer perimeter of the end bells and have the end-bends, denoting the 2nd generation BMY motors, those that are self-starting (non-centrifugal)


Hi Fred, with all of your fan construction details aside, to the best of my knowledge, there was no transformer in the Jandus/AB AC gyros. Just on-off operation. With no transformer, there has to be a means of starting the motors. Without the transformer, no phase shift to get it rolling. So...you either have centrifugal start or.....shaded pole option, it appears. I kinda doubt they were shaded pole.

I assure you the book page dates early 09.

Last edited on Thu Apr 18th, 2013 05:47 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:56 am
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Michael Mirin
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So t6he wire mount started in 09, how long did they make them?

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 Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 03:55 am
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Russ Huber
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Michael Mirin wrote: So the wire mount started in 09, how long did they make them?
1921-+?.  National Screw & Tack absorbed AB/Jandus in 21.












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