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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:10 pm
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Jan Hendriks
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Hi ,   Been cooking more japan  .. :D
This  a different formula to what i used on the first three marellis'  
Rick, has sent a coupla   mixtures  down here  to .play with.. and see what results can be achieved .
been running both my ovens daily  ..curing times .cooking .temps and importantly .Application of Japan 
  This finish was the result of using HVLP gun    ..not a brush 
glass like  finish  ..water droplets run off without settling ...
few pics here better than words  .

          something you all will recognize ..






   Too Smooth  maybe ??   


The    BIG   Elcon   


16"  base  



A early marelli Maestrale cf .Elcon parts either side  



This Japan has been given the name of ,"Stefan's Choice "  
next pics
 10" "yankee" model....the oval vent holes ..rarely seen ... Original Brass yoke even rarer .!!
     Thanks to mate  Jim, for the heads up on this one  :cool:

The story i received .from seller .
20 yrs ago a old colonial house was bought..on uncovering the  brick up fireplace .
inside the fireplace , three fans  and a old heater , bloke took one out and restored it ..other two went to his brother  ?? mmm  figure that out  eh?  fans in a fire place  bricked in ....

..this is one he kept  
hammertone finish and home made struts ..no run  no wires 



After  
japanned 
 2 speed   New Era   Marelli    :cool:  shades on pls  

















again i thank the man behind the ..  Dark Side  ..  amazing !!
 Can see why im so excited in the use of Japan as a finish   
cheers  jan    
 









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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:17 pm
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Dave McManaman
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That's an incredible finish!  So smooth looking, it looks like It would slip out of your hands if you tried to pick it up!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:19 pm
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Mark Behrend
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Those look great! Awesome job!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:23 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Really nice, deep pitch to the black, looks a lot like a cleaned/polished original japan finish.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:29 pm
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Bill Hoehn
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ThanksThat looks terrific.
I hope our local guys will learn your system!   :dude:

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 01:39 pm
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David Allen
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Beautiful. Like a mirror!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 02:10 pm
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Rick Powell
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Bill it's the same basic system I have been using, I have been experimenting with the Japanne formula and sending it to Jan for trial and instructing him how to apply and bake it, Jan has gotten great results and greatly added to the process with his experience and input, he is a true craftsman. This isn't any of the samples you and the group of testers have seen.  I brought some bases to Fan Fair and Stefan Osdene commented on which one he thought looked best, hence "Stefans Formula".  I am still experimenting and tweaking the formula to make it better also will be working on red and green Japanne this fall. 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 03:11 pm
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Craig Robbins
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“Too smooth maybe” 

I LOVE IT. Outstanding. 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 03:55 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Rick Powell wrote: ...also will be working on red and green Japanne this fall. 
Rick and Jan, this japanning is looking great now.  But I am wondering how you would get a red or green Japan finish since the base for black japan is asphalt, a very black substance.  I know there are other colors of Japan but don't they differ a lot from not having ashpaltum in them and are the colors thick and durable too?

I will also encourage thought to develop an authentic non-over restored Japan finish.  Some may want the look of the original without the finish being perfectly level or without some minor flaws and runs.

Last edited on Wed Oct 4th, 2017 04:16 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 04:01 pm
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Russ Huber
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That's better than incredible.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 05:07 pm
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Lane Shirey
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Would either of you guys be so kind to share your formula and process? I think that there are some of us that would like to give it a try and it'd save us from reinventing the wheel with many failed attempts and wasted materials. 

I'd be most interested in the formula that worked best with the spray gun

They really look great!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 05:08 pm
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Don Tener
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Very nice! Looks great.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 07:06 pm
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Rick Powell
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Steve Stephens wrote: Rick Powell wrote: ...also will be working on red and green Japanne this fall. 
Rick and Jan, this japanning is looking great now.  But I am wondering how you would get a red or green Japan finish since the base for black japan is asphalt, a very black substance.  I know there are other colors of Japan but don't they differ a lot from not having ashpaltum in them and are the colors thick and durable too?

I will also encourage thought to develop an authentic non-over restored Japan finish.  Some may want the look of the original without the finish being perfectly level or without some minor flaws and runs.
Steve, thanks for the compliments.  Jan has sanded the Japanne in between coats which I'm not sure the early manufacturers did not, he prefers the mirror finish which is not how I believe the fans left the factory. He also used a spray gun which wasn't invented until 1926 that adds to the mirror finish. Jan is very satisfied with the results and has done a beautiful job. Since I wrote the article in the "Fan Collector" on "The Dark Side of Black Paint" I have researched the Japanne formulas further and mixed countless batches of Japanne paint.  The samples that were circulated for peer review mentioned in the article used a different formula from what I came up with and what Jan has been using. I am currently working on a formula that I hope more closely resembles the original factory finish, one that doesn't require sanding between formulas but similar results.  During the initial sampling Stefan told me I needed to "gob it up a bit" to make it more authentic which is what I believe you are looking for also. In response to Lanes request to publish the formula and process we have been using I am not ready at this point to release it, not that I want to hoard it but it's not there in my mind yet. Jan believes so but after over three years of experimenting I'm not there yet. I will supply a good formula and process that is more user friendly shortly.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 07:57 pm
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Jim Kovar
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Wow, Jan!   That finish looks great.

I would imagine your japan finished

parts are exactly what they looked
like when new.

I dig the mirror-like reflectiveness.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 08:03 pm
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Jim Kovar
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Jim Kovar wrote: I dig the mirror-like reflectiveness.
THANK YOU!, for being fully clothed, Jan.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 08:53 pm
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Rick Powell
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That reflection is very revealing, good enough reason to tone down the Japanne!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 4th, 2017 09:09 pm
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George Durbin
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Hi Jan!

Will you scrape off the japanning from the Emerson where the gear case attaches? 

geo...

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 Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2017 02:29 am
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Bill Hoehn
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Hey Rick,
That answers some questions for me.  
First Stefan is not a common name.  He drove from Wisconsin for Laverne's funeral yesterday  He said it was only a five hour drive (and, I'm sure, an excuse to run his GTR). 

 We had a nice fan visit (to keep this legit and not moderated out of existence) and I usually show him something that he doesn't have to keep him coming back!  It's getting more difficult each year.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2017 01:22 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 Awesome finish on those parts Jan , I want some of that up here in Arkansas.  :up:

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 Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2017 01:40 pm
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Jan Hendriks
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Jim Kovar wrote: Wow, Jan!   That finish looks great.

I would imagine your japan finished

parts are exactly what they looked
like when new.

I dig the mirror-like reflectiveness.




From  Dave to Bill   Thanks for the positive comments ,   
  
I carnt comment on the finish of your American japanned fans  
Not seen enough of em ..and this the first emerson ive seen eye to eye  
  
  Verity Gec etc,yes .....Marelli i feel very confident about  :D...
Finish on the marellis i have here with good 100 yr old japan are mirror smooth,
  I've used many methods over the years to bring the original shine back..and they Shine !!
.
      Rick is a stickler for, "old school methods" and  :hammer: to you Sir.

..i mix old , with what i know ,to achieve what i believe my marellis would of looked like ..originally.. 
 
       Marelli sold world wide  ,Appearances' as well as reliability must of played a big part in their early successes 
  103 yr old japan in the sun      ..dont see no runs  quality finish   
my observations  ...





The "wet" finish i get as the japan enamel settles ..is the Same finish i get after stoved
  no polish  ..no cutting 
  and as Jim K and others commented...WOW  was my first impression 
       My taste,  my fans is too look new,



 I was inspired many years ago with the quality of the restoration work ive  seen done  here  , 

Hi Jan!Will you scrape off the japanning from the Emerson where the gear case attaches? geo...
Hi  George, first emmerson ..probably got jap in a few places shouldn't be eh!..will sand of  carefully  ,not scrape..

  
cheers from down here and enjoy your day
 jan


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 Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2017 01:43 pm
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Jan Hendriks
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Geoff Dunaway wrote:  Awesome finish on those parts Jan , I want some of that up here in Arkansas.  :up:

Hi Geoff   , 
                   missed your post while typing 
    great finish big grin here  
cya 

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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:07 am
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Bill Hoehn
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Jan, Rick, Stefan, Dan, Geoff, and all others,It looks like you are getting close to where the japanning artists were over 100 years ago. :clap: Jan, I'm the opposite of you---I have hundreds of different Emmys, but only one Verity that I got twenty or thirty years ago.  I don't remember the details but i think I went over and rewired it.  I'll try from scans since I can't send pictures any other way.  Hope it works. First---something my son has that will move a lot of fans!

Last edited on Mon Oct 9th, 2017 08:12 am by Bill Hoehn

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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:09 am
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Bill Hoehn
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Now for my one and only Verity;

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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:13 am
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Bill Hoehn
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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:15 am
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Bill Hoehn
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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:16 am
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Bill Hoehn
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&

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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:17 am
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Bill Hoehn
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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 06:21 am
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Bill Hoehn
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Last---a picture of the last rose in my wife Laverne's  arrangement about 10 or

12 days after it arrived---note ---it is sprouting new life from the cut flower!!!

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 Posted: Sun Oct 8th, 2017 05:47 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 That's a great Verity's to have. The back arm of the neck is cast with a graceful curve while some of the others appear to have been made with welded up angle iron. Wish I knew the history of the decisions in design from that company. Probably done to save $$ or pounds perhaps just like Emerson & others. Also , a beautiful red rose.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 01:21 am
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Jan Hendriks
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Hi Bill ,        Thanks for your verity pics  ,         no marelli? in collection 
               Heres' one not often found
 Another that will need the Japan 



 Delhi  Fan     Verity









Agree with Jeff , Nice rose  :clap:   needs some soil around her   


 myself, grew and showed orchids for many years  , i still keep one from the collection with me .
rest  went to friends living in the tropics  ....
 
now, backonpost     . japan  

Now trying a formula taken from a 1884 book  
   has been given the dubious name of Downunder Japan ..... :D

pic  is wet from the Gun      
   found this Very interesting 


..https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjr1vufruLWAhXBvbwKHV7kA6MQFggqMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhttp://www.paintspraypro.com%2Fa-brief-history-of-the-spray-gun%2F&usg=AOvVaw1f9tyKSnNMHasrJmHI30GY

first coat....


marelli was using the same system ,,,,lazy susan and spray   

 


cheers j

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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 02:46 am
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Jan Hendriks
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I was surprised to find aluminium in the knuckle joint, no matter how /what temps i use  , lots of gas & many attempts  ...
  



Ratchet collar ,aluminum too,  alas  if i keep temp down  japan wont set .. 




also found the H  ,  Hendriks eh....  :D :D.        Hendryx....bird cages 



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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 04:33 am
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Steve Stephens
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Jan Hendriks wrote: I was surprised to find aluminium in the knuckle joint, no matter how /what temps i use  , lots of gas & many attempts  ...
  



Ratchet collar ,aluminum too,  alas  if i keep temp down  japan wont set .. 




also found the H  ,  Hendriks eh....  :D :D.        Hendryx....bird cages 



Pivot knuckle and ratchet cases are, I'm pretty sure, made of pot metal and not aluminum.  Pivot knuckles changed to cast iron at least by the later 24xxx types.  Maybe you could paint, Japan or powder coat aluminum but probably not pot metal.   

The "H" on your cage badge is probably Hendricks but this one is for sure.  It's on a 21646 I have and have seen a few others.    There is, also, an Emerson badge with a "B" on the backside.  Wonder what that stands for.




Below is from 1917

Front of my 21646 "Hendrix" cage badge.


Bird cage water and seed holder.


Last edited on Mon Oct 9th, 2017 04:35 am by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 06:17 am
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Jan Hendriks
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Hi Steve ,  if its'   pot metal ,best ive seen. Over 100 yrs old ,plus had in oven 375F  with no stress fractures. 
and files very cleanly
     Thinking... of gilsonite powder  ,mixed with good varnish ..be a backward step to use paint on this first fan  
  
    
footnote  ..
DU Japan  had a very quick curing rate , less than 10 mins  ..to my amazement 
  ..and Ricks i bet ,when he wakes up and finds out   :D

From   start to finish  ,japanned in 3 hrs ......... :shock:   1 coat.







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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 08:39 am
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Bill Hoehn
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Jan, 
No Marelli!  :cry:  Lucky to have a Verity!  

Also, Emerson did not spray the japan in  the early days.  I don't believe that equipment was available here in St. Louis in 1890. The parts were all dipped! 

 Also, Emerson definitely did japan the pot medal, but the modern powder coaters have trouble doing it.  

Many of the old methods have been lost.  For example when I take an old Emerson casting to be duplicated the modern "experts" tell me it cannot be done, even though I'm holding the piece in my hand!  :hammer:  The truth is that they don't know how to do what their ancestors did routinely and won't admit it!  :clap:  

So much for computers and modern technology.  :violin:

There are advantages to being over 86 years of age and remembering the "old days".  :dude:

Last edited on Mon Oct 9th, 2017 08:49 am by Bill Hoehn

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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 09:06 pm
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Greg Rodocker
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Is the knuckle and the ratchet collar made of aluminum?  zinc? or?

According to a reference  I have on Japanning:

"Die casting must be given a preliminary heat to drive off the internal gases.... Followed by sanding off the small round particles that come out on the surface. The japan may be applied in the regular way.

Zinc becomes brittle at 175 degree F. and it positively should not be baked nearly as high heat as that. To remove oil and grease from zinc use carbon tetrachloride and dry immediately.

Aluminum is injured internally when baked at a temperature above 350 degree F."


Greg


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 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 09:29 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Greg Rodocker wrote:
Is the knuckle and the ratchet collar made of aluminum?  zinc? or?

Here is an Emerson collar and it does look to me like pot metal.  It has a crystalline structure and did crack apart.  Another collar from an Emerson was also cracked in a few places.   Maybe it's zinc but I don't think it's aluminum with that dull grey color.  The pivot knuckle  I am not sure of the metal but was thinking since Emerson did use some pot metal in their collars and early ball detent oscillator disc that it, too, would be pot metal.   I don't think I have seen any degradation of the soft metal knuckles.

The collar on the left is still good other than having a broken off screw embedded in the part that sticks up.  You can see the color and with the original paint or japan.



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