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 Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2018 11:56 pm
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Ed Thomas
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I picked up a Robbins & Myers model 3500 today. Pretty nice condition and runs well. The funny thing is that a penny was glued to the back of one of the blades (I assume for ballance). The first time I have seen this...the penny has a recent mint date but I was curious as to whether this was common?
I assume as soon as I remove the penny it will be out of ballance. I live in SW Michigan; is there anyone in the area that can I can get with to ballance the blade?








I put this one next to a Westetn Electric...other than the badge, they appear to be the same fan



Last edited on Fri Oct 5th, 2018 12:25 am by Ed Thomas

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 01:59 am
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Levi Mevis
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I live in Elkhart, Indiana which is not too far from you, I could help you out with your fan.
And yes, your Western Electric and R & M fan are the same fan, as R & M made fans for Western Electric in the Early 20th Century.
I hope this helps,

Levi

Last edited on Fri Oct 5th, 2018 02:12 am by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 02:07 am
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Stan Adams
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Levi, hate to contradict you, but putting the motor in the DC position simply slows it down some on AC. The reason they have this is the fan will run faster & sweeter on DC than AC. To slow it down to the same speed on DC as it is on AC, they put a small resistor in series in the DC position. The motor is a series wind so won't hurt it in DC position.
That balance penny is interesting.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 02:11 am
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Levi Mevis
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Stan Adams wrote: Levi, hate to contradict you, but putting the motor in the DC position simply slows it down some on AC. The reason they have this is the fan will run faster & sweeter on DC than AC. To slow it down to the same speed on DC as it is on AC, they put a small resistor in series in the DC position. The motor is a series wind so won't hurt it in DC position.
That balance penny is interesting.

OK, I didn't realize that, I just assumed it meant that it would only run it in DC Mode with it in that position, which if that would of been the case it would of blown the motor. Its kind of deceiving those markings...  :wondering:

I edited my post to reflect the new information.

Last edited on Fri Oct 5th, 2018 02:13 am by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:15 am
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Jeff Jones
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I did it once with an Emerson 79648 before I knew about proper blade balancing. Took a nickel on 1 wing an a penny on another...but boy it did it smooth out the vibration. I ended up selling the fan then so I dunno if the buyer left the coins in place or re-balanced it. I guess it wouldn't hurt anything unless it came flying off...which was my biggest worry.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:27 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi Mevis wrote: Stan Adams wrote: Levi, hate to contradict you, but putting the motor in the DC position simply slows it down some on AC. The reason they have this is the fan will run faster & sweeter on DC than AC. To slow it down to the same speed on DC as it is on AC, they put a small resistor in series in the DC position. The motor is a series wind so won't hurt it in DC position.
That balance penny is interesting.

OK, I didn't realize that, I just assumed it meant that it would only run it in DC Mode with it in that position, which if that would of been the case it would of blown the motor. Its kind of deceiving those markings...  :wondering:

I edited my post to reflect the new information.

This is a universal motor fan and the selections offered on the base when it was introduced back in 1920 for either/or AC or DC circuit.  The DC selection ONLY has the nichrome resistance wire. R&M allowed an open circuit on the AC selection. R&M designed the fan to reduce RPM on DC circuit, not AC.


Being it is a universal motor fan WE TODAY can use the DC selection for low speed on ALTERNATING WALL CURRENT.


If your nichrome is shot a correct spec. half wave diode in place of the nichrome will work.


The list number 3500 has the cast in oil reservoir.  The Western Electric pictured with the oil cups is actually the later R&M list 3504.

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R&M8-20.jpeg.v2.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:28 am
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Russ Huber
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If your nichrome is shot a correct spec. half wave diode in place of the nichrome will work.

Attached Image (viewed 212 times):

fans 1 5740.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:31 am
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Ed Thomas
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My wife told me I should keep the penny attached just to be different and have a conversation piece.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:31 am
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Levi Mevis
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Russ Huber wrote: If your nichrome is shot a correct spec. half wave diode in place of the nichrome will work.


That's good to know Russ!

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:33 am
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Levi Mevis
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Ed Thomas wrote: My wife told me I should keep the penny attached just to be different and have a conversation piece.
Aww, Man now that's no fun, especially since I was looking forward to helping you fix that fan right up proper! 

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:36 am
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Russ Huber
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Ed Thomas wrote: My wife told me I should keep the penny attached just to be different and have a conversation piece.
If one of the wings is to heavy a Dupro dynamic prop balancer will find the culprit.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:39 am
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Russ Huber
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https://www.amazon.com/Du-Bro-499-Tru-Spin-Prop-Balancer/dp/B0006N72Y8

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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 04:53 am
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Ed Thomas
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Thanks for the direction Russ. I will look into getting one.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 02:10 pm
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Ryan Blazei
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I’ve actually riveted a penny to a blade to smooth a fan out. It was a Zephair, very hard to balance. Worked and hasn’t flown off, but obviously not very elegant.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 02:24 pm
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Levi Mevis
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In my experience so far with these R & M fans that use these rounded ended blades the thing that makes them unbalanced is just a bent blade or two, that's what it was with my R & M 3804X which had two blades with a dime glued to the back of each blade, so I removed the two dimes straightened out the blades and it's ran fine since. I have a feeling that's what's wrong with the OP's fan, since his fan has the same kind of blades as my fan has and had the same repair.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 06:48 pm
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Allen Bennett
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I had a 16” Westy Pacemaker with a damaged micarta blade wing that had been re-shaped and sanded. I epoxied a washer on the backside and it took care of all vibrations.  An Emerson 79648 had a bent wing that I straightened out as much as possible. To balance it I used those super strong magnets on the backside of the hub. I use the fan on our deck to cool us when using the hot tub, so it was a quick fix on a fan that I didn’t want to spend a lot of time on. 


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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 07:41 pm
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William Dunlap
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I run my fans so having projectiles mounted on them with unknown launch date is a no go.

I have a Dubro. I align and true the wings first, then balance them. None of my fans walk around.

Most of them vibrate to one degree or another, though. There is something to be said for a 30 lb lump of iron that dampens vibration....

Just saying....more perfect balance seems more beneficial to lighter and faster fans.

Cheers,
Bill

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 08:00 pm
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Allen Bennett
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William Dunlap wrote: I run my fans so having projectiles mounted on them with unknown launch date is a no go.

Cheers,
Bill
I must say that I don't believe the newer neodymium magnets will ever launch!  It takes a strong effort to move one around, let alone pull it off.  Even on high speed, they will not budge.   :up:NEODYMIUMNwiEODYMIUM

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