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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 01:43 am
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Levi Mevis
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Hello Everyone, last Friday I was at a local antique mall (the same one that had the Westinghouse LivelyAire that I bought), and one of the Booths that usually has a couple of antique fans for sale had an old 16" Western Electric Graybar fan for sale in their booth which was rustier than all get out with nearly 95% paint loss and the areas where that 95% paint loss was, was covered in rust so I was like "no, not worth it". 

But then behind that Graybar was a 10" Stamped Steel Westinghouse for sale and they only wanted $48 (which I think I can get it for less if the booth owner has some sort of discount), and it was in really nice shape yet and had brass blades and brass cage as well with the stenciled Westinghouse badge on the cage, it was a three speed oscillator. 

I'm thinking about getting that Stamped Steel Westinghouse this weekend after I get paid on Friday.

What do you guys think? Is it worth it at that price or should I pass and wait for another one to come along at a cheaper price?

Pictures posted below.







It looks about like the stamped steel Westinghouse in this picture which was taken at my church in one of their history room display cases, except the one at the antique mall has the stenciled Westinghouse badge rather than the solid one like this fan has.

  

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:06 am
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Dave McManaman
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If it isn’t completely trashed I would give that as soon as I could. If it runs and otherwise in good shape I’d pay a lot more. 

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:12 am
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Levi Mevis
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The stamped steel Westinghouse I saw at the antique mall had close to 98% of its original paint intact yet and all the brass on the cage and the blades had just your usual patina on them and the original headwire was still intact and the power cord was replaced at one point in time with an old rubber lamp cord that was still in decent shape yet. 

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:30 am
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Will Guidry
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Sure that'she not a 12" ?

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:32 am
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Levi Mevis
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The one at the antique mall IS a 10" the one in the picture is a 12" inch and isn't the same one at the antique mall but one similar to it that is actually at my church in a display case.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:47 am
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Steve Stephens
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The 10" Westys like that are uncommon and the price seems very good if it runs.   I think you will find the cage to be made of steel (magnetic) but the blades will be brass, both nickel plated.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 02:51 am
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Levi Mevis
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Ok, thanks. But why would they nickel plate the brass blades? And also if the cage is steel, then how do you explain the fan that my church has which has a brass cage?

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 03:42 am
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Steve Stephens
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Levi Mevis wrote: The one at the antique mall IS a 10" the one in the picture is a 12" inch and isn't the same one at the antique mall but one similar to it that is actually at my church in a display case.The 10" Westys seem to all be nickel plated (you'll have to ask Westinghouse why) and the 12" fans all had brass cages at the time.  I just put a magnet to my 10" Westy just like you saw and it sticks to the cage but not the blade.   Steel cage, brass blade, both nickel plated like all I have seen.  They are a good looking fan and kind of a miniature of the 12" Westy.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 03:50 am
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Levi Mevis
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OK, so it was just that the 10" was supposed to be a "cheaper" version of the 12" and 16" version I'm guessing, which would explain the nickel plated brass blades and nickel plated steel cage on the 10".

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 Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 07:24 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Cheaper in price but, also, somewhat in quality or materials I think.   The 12 and 16" fans are basically the same other than their sizes but the 10" has many differences yet still looks much like it's bigger brothers.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2018 06:05 pm
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Levi Mevis
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OK I found out more about the Stamped steel Westinghouse I saw at the antique mall, they actually wanted $68 for it (the way they wrote the tag out I thought the booth number was the price and the price was the booth number), but the fan isn't in working order the cord on it is dry-rotted to the point that there is exposed wire in several spots on the cord and the headwire has a large nip out of it, so its definitely gonna need rewired. 

The cage and blades are painted the same color as the body which is black so I have no idea how to tell if the blades are brass or not unless I use a magnet and the cage I can't tell if its steel or brass or some other metal because it is painted so again a magnet test will be in order, and the paint on the cage and blades appears to be factory original. 

The rest of the metal on the fan that is exposed like on the oscillator mechanism appears to be nickel plated metal of some sort.

And it is for sure a 10" model as the blade and cage are clearly smaller than the 12" model pictured above from my church. 

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 Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2018 07:40 pm
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Levi Mevis
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I got the fan, managed to get it for $40 plus tax.
I got it home wired up a new cord to it turn it on, nothing, so my next step is to wire the cord directly to the motor to rule out the motor itself and see if possibly the speed coil or switch is bad, also I checked the blades and it seems it has micarta blades which means its not as early as I thought it was but its still a stamped steel Westy just not as old as I was hoping it would be. also it seems that the oil port lid is missing on the front bearing's oil port so I'll need that it seems as well.

Pics posted below.




Frontview


Rearview


Tag view

Last edited on Sat Dec 8th, 2018 07:50 pm by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2018 08:56 pm
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Levi Mevis
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So I figured out why the fan wasn't working, the headwire was completely severed inside the base which it wasn't any wonder it didn't short out and cause a fire.
Anyways so I need to replace the headwire but don't know how to get the stator out without damaging it (had a hard enough time getting the cover off of the motor.)

Any suggestions?

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 04:17 am
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Richard Daugird
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You have to drive that stator out, and drive it back in. I've never tried it myself.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 05:04 am
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Levi Mevis
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I tried driving it out but the way the stator is wound there isn't much room between windings and the laminate core for you to take a screwdriver or drift punch to the stator to drive it out without risk of slipping and damaging the windings...😦

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 01:14 pm
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Russ Huber
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1923 10" model. Check your guard supports against the 23 model.

Attached Image (viewed 202 times):

10Inch.jpg

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2018 01:14 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 03:32 pm
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Russ Huber
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Levi Mevis wrote: I tried driving it out but the way the stator is wound there isn't much room between windings and the laminate core for you to take a screwdriver or drift punch to the stator to drive it out without risk of slipping and damaging the windings...😦
http://whiteglovefans.com/blog/2013/9/7/how-to-remove-a-stator-from-a-stamped-steel-fan

You only need 2 opposing holes in the housing to drive the stator out with a drift punch. You could drill out the stator bolt motor housing holes a tad wider so a drift punch will catch or come in contact with the stator to drive it out. it appears there the fear of damaging the windings would be eliminated. Being the stator bolt housing hole will be slightly wider you could center and super glue if necessary a nice shiner brass washer over the oversized hole with the same size stator bolt hole diameter. This would also give nice cosmetic appearance. 

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2018 03:48 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 04:26 pm
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Levi Mevis
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Thanks Russ I think that will work, because I was trying to go through the vent holes and those were lining up to the point that it was just a fear of damaging the stator windings but I think going through the bolt holes will work better.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 04:40 pm
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Greg Miller
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That's a really thin steel housing and driving that stator out WILL beat the heck out of it, no matter what you do. I did one of those for someone a few years back and I had a real hard time knocking that thing out (there are pics here on the forum somewhere). The trick is to support the housing from the inside and drive out the stator without distorting the housing from force or mangling the stator from the beating. 

I put mine in the freezer and left it overnight, then I took it while still frozen and very rapidly heated the housing with a plumbing torch (not for the faint of heart) with one hand while driving the stator out with a drift and hammer through a vent hole with the other hand. You have to work really fast and only get a couple minutes before you have to freeze it again because you want the housing to heat and expand while the stator is still cold and contracted. Mine took two cycles of freezing/heating/beating- the first broke it free and got it about 1/3 of the way out. The second time it came out in about three smacks with the brass drift and wooden mallet.

Also, the fan you have looks like it should have Micarta blades, not metal. Most of those series 10" Westys had Micarta blades.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 05:27 pm
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Russ Huber
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Greg Miller wrote: That's a really thin steel housing and driving that stator out WILL beat the heck out of it, no matter what you do. I did one of those for someone a few years back and I had a real hard time knocking that thing out (there are pics here on the forum somewhere). The trick is to support the housing from the inside and drive out the stator without distorting the housing from force or mangling the stator from the beating. 

I put mine in the freezer and left it overnight, then I took it while still frozen and very rapidly heated the housing with a plumbing torch (not for the faint of heart) with one hand while driving the stator out with a drift and hammer through a vent hole with the other hand. You have to work really fast and only get a couple minutes before you have to freeze it again because you want the housing to heat and expand while the stator is still cold and contracted. Mine took two cycles of freezing/heating/beating- the first broke it free and got it about 1/3 of the way out. The second time it came out in about three smacks with the brass drift and wooden mallet.

Also, the fan you have looks like it should have Micarta blades, not metal. Most of those series 10" Westys had Micarta blades.

Psssssssssssst…..Levi, maybe next time you run across one of those for sale you should pretend it's not there.  :D



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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 08:31 pm
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Levi Mevis
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Russ Huber wrote: Greg Miller wrote: That's a really thin steel housing and driving that stator out WILL beat the heck out of it, no matter what you do. I did one of those for someone a few years back and I had a real hard time knocking that thing out (there are pics here on the forum somewhere). The trick is to support the housing from the inside and drive out the stator without distorting the housing from force or mangling the stator from the beating. 

I put mine in the freezer and left it overnight, then I took it while still frozen and very rapidly heated the housing with a plumbing torch (not for the faint of heart) with one hand while driving the stator out with a drift and hammer through a vent hole with the other hand. You have to work really fast and only get a couple minutes before you have to freeze it again because you want the housing to heat and expand while the stator is still cold and contracted. Mine took two cycles of freezing/heating/beating- the first broke it free and got it about 1/3 of the way out. The second time it came out in about three smacks with the brass drift and wooden mallet.

Also, the fan you have looks like it should have Micarta blades, not metal. Most of those series 10" Westys had Micarta blades.

Psssssssssssst…..Levi, maybe next time you run across one of those for sale you should pretend it's not there.  :D



Well I didn't realize I was going to have to replace the headwire at the time...  😑

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2018 08:31 pm by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 10:52 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Levi,
Any chance you could avoid removing the stator by using about an inch of the original headwire at the motor end and soldering the replacement wires to the old wires?  Or maybe use several inches of original headwire and attach the replacement headwires sort of staggered down the length of the original to eliminate an unsightly bulge at one point.  Then cover both the old and new headwires with whipping cord for the entire length.  It'd take a little time, but might be preferable to taking the risk of screwing up the motor housing or breaking off the original headwires inside the stator coils.

Jim

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 11:01 pm
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Levi Mevis
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I could try that Jim, but it might be tricky as the sheathing around the original headwire is starting to deteriorate and the sheathing around the wire itself is getting brittle as its cloth covered rubber. But it seems that might be a better alternative to trying to remove the stator. Does any of the wiring supply places associated with this website sell two conductor headwire that has the two conductors together inside a cloth sheathing? 

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 05:01 am
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Levi Mevis
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Russ Huber wrote:







1923 10" model. Check your guard supports against the 23 model.


Russ, I found the microdate on my fan and the date is 5-18-25 which means my fan was made between 1925-1928 if I'm remembering the year range correctly for the microdates (which I think the microdate given on the ID tage gives you roughly a 3 year span of when the fan was made if I'm remembering right).

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 05:50 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi Mevis wrote:

Russ, I found the microdate on my fan and the date is 5-18-25 which means my fan was made between 1925-1928 if I'm remembering the year range correctly for the microdates (which I think the microdate given on the ID tage gives you roughly a 3 year span of when the fan was made if I'm remembering right).


Yup, your fan is later than the 23 model I posted for sure. 

Can you take a close picture of your head wire where it exits the motor? 

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:05 am
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Levi Mevis
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Russ Huber wrote: Levi Mevis wrote:

Russ, I found the microdate on my fan and the date is 5-18-25 which means my fan was made between 1925-1928 if I'm remembering the year range correctly for the microdates (which I think the microdate given on the ID tage gives you roughly a 3 year span of when the fan was made if I'm remembering right).


Yup, your fan is later than the 23 model I posted for sure. 

Can you take a close picture of your head wire where it exits the motor? 

Sure can, I would also like to know more about how the bearing lubrication system on this fan works.



here's the original headwire coming out from the back of the fan motor housing, I have already cut down and stripped the wire back in preparation for hopefully splicing some new headwire onto the original headwire using solder, and shrink wrap, it won't look original by any means but it will at least make the fan functional again.






So I've taken a picture of the front and rear bearing housings and I was wondering how it is you're supposed to lubricate the bearings on this fan. The top image is a picture of the front bearing's lube hole but it looks like its missing its cover, the bottom picture is of what appears to be the rear bearing's lubrication point, but not sure though, maybe you can point out where the rear bearing's lubrication point is for me. 

The 1923 ad you posted for this particular style fan says its supposed to be lubricated light bearing grease for the bearings but on my fan it looks like oil ports as the front bearing has what appears to be a wick in it as you can see in the pictures. 

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:19 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi, you could splice that head cord using heat shrink tubing.  If you do it carefully it can have a decent appearance.

Attached Image (viewed 85 times):

black-gardner-bender-electrical-tubing-hst-astb-64_1000.jpg

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:21 am
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Russ Huber
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It appears there is open felt wadding to lubricate the bearing at least up front.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:22 am
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Levi Mevis
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Russ That's what I was thinking of doing, does any of the vintage wiring distributers that are associated with our forum sell reproduction headwire cabling that looks like the stuff that is on this fan currently?

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:24 am
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Levi Mevis
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Russ Huber wrote: It appears there is open felt wadding to lubricate the bearing at least up front.
Is there supposed to be a cover for thar lubrication port up front or is it supposed to be open like that?

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:27 am
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Charlie Forster
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Levi  parts for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ANTIQUE-WESTINGHOUSE-ELECTRIC-FAN-MOTOR-BASE-SWITCH-PARTS/163417644665?hash=item260c735e79:g:ZKsAAOSwlAVcCT-I:rk:29:pf:0

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:35 am
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Levi Mevis
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Charlie Forster wrote: Levi  parts for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ANTIQUE-WESTINGHOUSE-ELECTRIC-FAN-MOTOR-BASE-SWITCH-PARTS/163417644665?hash=item260c735e79:g:ZKsAAOSwlAVcCT-I:rk:29:pf:0

Thanks Charlie, unfortunately they are the wrong models of fans and the switch in mine I believe still works its just the headwire that was causing my fan to be non-fuctional with the switch.

as for the lubrication port up front on the fan motor I'm trying to find another fan like mine so I can see if its indeed missing a cover to go over the lubrication port up front or if its supposed to be open like it is currently.

Edit: After a little searching around on the internet for fans similar to mine, it seems that my front bearing oiler port is indeed missing a cover which is of the spring-loaded ball-bearing type where you push the ball-bearing down in with the tip of the oiling can and then fill the oil reservoir from there, so it seems this fan uses oil rather than grease to lube the bearings. just not sure about how the rear bearing is lubricated.

Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2018 07:02 am by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 03:43 pm
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Richard Daugird
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This is why I almost exclusively collect cast iron fans. Vortalex would be the exception-and only when they are in excellent shape, or someone else has already fixed them! I'm much too clumsey.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 05:49 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Richard Daugird wrote: This is why I almost exclusively collect cast iron fans. My thoughts also.   Cast iron fans, while a bit more expensive, are much easier to work on and parts may even be easier to find or have made.   I'm not a fan of sheet metal screws going into sheet metal; I like machine screws screwing into solid cast iron.   I have bought a few stamped steel Westys but most have been in excellent original condition and not needing a new headwire.   

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 05:58 pm
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Levi Mevis
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Steve Stephens wrote: Richard Daugird wrote: This is why I almost exclusively collect cast iron fans. My thoughts also.   Cast iron fans, while a bit more expensive, are much easier to work on and parts may even be easier to find or have made.   I'm not a fan of sheet metal screws going into sheet metal; I like machine screws screwing into solid cast iron.   I have bought a few stamped steel Westys but most have been in excellent original condition and not needing a new headwire.   
Well when I first saw this fan and before I  bought it I didn't realize the headwire was in that  bad of condition otherwise I wouldn't of bought it. 

I saw that there was a little bit of damage to the headwire on the outside exposed part of the headwire but it was still intact the main and worst of the headwire damage was inside the base where the headwire was completely severed and I didn't notice it until I got the fan home and taken apart to replace the cord which was actually in worst shape than I remembered it being when I first posted about it. 

So yeah she still works just fine i just need to fix the headwire which I will do that with a combination of solder and shrink tubing.


Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2018 05:59 pm by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2018 06:14 pm
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Richard Daugird
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I have a stamped steel Westy, six wing brass blade was in great shape. I plugged the vent holes and got real lucky, I painted it with Rustoleum Professional and it came out like glass. But I didn't let it cure and marked it up a bit transporting it home from work. I repainted it twice but never got that glass finish. Took it to the armature shop and even he didn't want to try to remove the stator; luckily there was enough wire left to solder and heat shrink a new headwire.

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