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Diehl Pedestal Circulator  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:23 pm
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Dan Foley
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I shared this on the Facebook group as well, but here's the Diehl circulator I brought home from Vermont a couple days ago.  I probably won't be doing too much with this one, aside from regreasing the bearings and giving it a general cleanup.  The motor still has a lot of its original paint, so that should clean up nicely.












The blade on this one appears to be a multi-piece casting.

Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:28 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:31 pm
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David Allen
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Very nice fan, indeed.



The blade is interesting. Is each wing a separate casting; or is it a 3-wing casting, with two end caps that clamp it to the shaft?

EDIT:  I bet there is a rubber bushing, or a collet inside the hub, which is compressed down on the shaft when you tighten the 3 screws.

Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:32 pm by David Allen

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:33 pm
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Dan Foley
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Thanks, David!  
Each blade seems to be a separate piece, and I noticed the penetrating oil I applied to the set screw holes would soak through the casting seams.  I'm guessing it probably comes apart when the end pieces are removed.


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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 08:36 pm
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David Allen
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Dan Foley wrote: Thanks, David!  

Each blade seems to be a separate piece, and I noticed the penetrating oil I applied to the set screw holes would soak through the casting seams.  I'm guessing it probably comes apart when the end pieces are removed




Wow, that is interesting! 


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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:02 pm
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Russ Huber
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Segmented blade dates the circulator 1947+.

Attached Image (viewed 426 times):

Airbladepat..png.jpg

Last edited on Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:04 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:08 pm
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Stan Adams
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The brand new ones are still made that way. I installed 4 in the engine room of the USS TEXAS a few years ago.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 10:47 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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I think that is the way this design has always been.  Mark Wire has one that appears to be fiberglass.

Then there were the one piece cast models.






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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Tom Dreesen wrote: I think that is the way this design has always been.  Mark Wire has one that appears to be fiberglass.

Then there were the one piece cast models.







Your Airmaster blade is designed using the patents of the Chicago Leinweber brothers.

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images4B9U7U5H.v2.jpg

Last edited on Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:14 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:15 am
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Russ Huber
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The early Jim Funk Airmaster 3 wingers were solid cast aluminum.







Attached Image (viewed 394 times):

Funkblade.png

Last edited on Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:22 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2018 01:20 pm
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Dan Foley
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Thanks for the information, everyone!  
I was able to disassemble the blades, which should hopefully make it easier to remove the hub from the rotor shaft.  It's probably the most stubborn blade hub I've dealt with, it really doesn't want to come off.  Aside from heating it up, I'm wondering if that "Diehl Propeller" badge will pop out and provide access directly to the rotor shaft.  Then it may be possible to use a bearing puller.  Of course I also don't want to crack the hub, either.






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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2018 03:47 pm
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Stan Adams
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I would leave the blades on it & use them for leverage. Lock the motor rotor in place & use the blades to twist the hub on the shaft. After a bit of turning, the penetrating oil will do it’s thing & will slide right off. Also, make sure there are not two set screws in one hole.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2018 09:18 pm
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Dan Foley
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Stan - that seemed to work. At first I was just afraid of cracking something with the blades on.

I finally was able to make the hub budge a bit, I held the rotor in my vise with some soft jaws and put the blades back on. After gently twisting the blades in both directions it started to free up. I haven't removed it just yet, I'm letting the penetrating oil soak for a bit longer. It looks like the rotor shaft underneath the hub has some rust on it, so that will need a real good cleaning.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 12:43 am
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Stan Adams
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Great to hear you had success!

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 03:33 am
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Dan Foley
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Turns out there are two burrs on the rotor shaft, and they were preventing the hub from sliding off.  You can tell the fan must have been apart at some point, and someone tightened the set screws down before the hub was pushed all the way back.  I had to twist the hub pretty good before it finally separated.  Tomorrow I'm going to remove those burrs and re-grease the front bearing.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 02:22 pm
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Charles Tedrick
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You can replace those bearings while it's all apart. A brand new set of sealed bearings are usually less than $20 on ebay  :light:

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 05:11 pm
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Levi Mevis
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Depending on the diameter of those bearings you can also get those bearings from Ace Hardware as well, and you don't have to deal with shipping costs.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 05:35 pm
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George Durbin
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Fastenal stores have a good supply of bearings along with Rural King stores...

Geo...

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 06:26 pm
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David Allen
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Hi Dan. Look at the bearings closely. They are probably a type 6203 or 6202 bearing. Any bearing store can get these, however you need to be sure to get electric motor grade bearings. Fastenal and Motion Industries are good choices.

I really don't want to be seen as dissing on anyone els's suggestions, but I need to mention something about the farm stores. They may sell a low grade "wheelbarrow wheel" quality 6203-size bearing. I've run into these before. They will fit, but the lubricant will melt and run out at motor operating temperature; and the bearings are often noisy at motor speeds, even new-out-of-box. Again I am not trying to make anyone feel bad about suggesting a farm store, because they can surely order the correct ones - but they probably have the wheelbarrow style on the shelf.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 06:35 pm
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Levi Mevis
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David Allen wrote: Hi Dan. Look at the bearings closely. They are probably a type 6203 or 6202 bearing. Any bearing store can get these, however you need to be sure to get electric motor grade bearings. Fastenal and Motion Industries are good choices.

I really don't want to be seen as dissing on anyone els's suggestions, but I need to mention something about the farm stores. They may sell a low grade "wheelbarrow wheel" quality 6203-size bearing. I've run into these before. They will fit, but the lubricant will melt and run out at motor operating temperature; and the bearings are often noisy at motor speeds, even new-out-of-box. Again I am not trying to make anyone feel bad about suggesting a farm store, because they can surely order the correct ones - but they probably have the wheelbarrow style on the shelf.
David no offense taken but I looked at the bearings that were offered at my local Ace Hardware and they said that they were motor grade bearings, not just wheelbarrow bearings, as I know that at Ace Hardware they offer Electric Motors for Air Comressors and Air Circulators as well.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 06:41 pm
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David Allen
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Levi Mevis wrote: David Allen wrote: Hi Dan. Look at the bearings closely. They are probably a type 6203 or 6202 bearing. Any bearing store can get these, however you need to be sure to get electric motor grade bearings. Fastenal and Motion Industries are good choices.



I really don't want to be seen as dissing on anyone els's suggestions, but I need to mention something about the farm stores. They may sell a low grade "wheelbarrow wheel" quality 6203-size bearing. I've run into these before. They will fit, but the lubricant will melt and run out at motor operating temperature; and the bearings are often noisy at motor speeds, even new-out-of-box. Again I am not trying to make anyone feel bad about suggesting a farm store, because they can surely order the correct ones - but they probably have the wheelbarrow style on the shelf.
David no offense taken but I looked at the bearings that were offered at my local Ace Hardware and they said that they were motor grade bearings, not just wheelbarrow bearings, as I know that at Ace Hardware they offer Electric Motors for Air Comressors and Air Circulators as well.

Yeah, Ace is good. I was thinking of  Rural King; Tractor Supply and the Farmer's CO-Op when I posted that.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 06:43 pm
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Levi Mevis
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Ok, that's what I thought but I wasn't sure. That's why I had to clarify first.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 08:31 pm
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Dan Foley
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Thank you all for the suggestions! I haven't pulled the bearings off just yet, they actually feel quite smooth with new grease. No rough spots or odd noises. I believe they're 6202 sized, 15x35x11.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2019 08:37 pm
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David Allen
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Dan Foley wrote: Thank you all for the suggestions! I haven't pulled the bearings off just yet, they actually feel quite smooth with new grease. No rough spots or odd noises. I believe they're 6202 sized, 15x35x11.
That's good!  I just had to change a set of 6202 bearings on a Hunter motor I repaired for a friend. They were about $10 a piece for high quality ones from a local industrial supply shop.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 12:55 am
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Dan Foley
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David Allen wrote: That's good!  I just had to change a set of 6202 bearings on a Hunter motor I repaired for a friend. They were about $10 a piece for high quality ones from a local industrial supply shop.


I figured I might as well just keep using them if they're still in good shape.  


Also the original switch is unfortunately broken, the internal mechanism that advances the contacts isn't working.  Being that this motor has six leads total, I'm guessing a 3PDT could be wired in.  Leads 1 and 3 have continuity, 2 and 4, and then 5 and 6.  The last two have a higher resistance, so those must be for the start winding.  I did make a quick note of where each wire was connected, so I can upload a picture of that too.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 12:58 am
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David Allen
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Dan Foley wrote: David Allen wrote: That's good!  I just had to change a set of 6202 bearings on a Hunter motor I repaired for a friend. They were about $10 a piece for high quality ones from a local industrial supply shop.






I figured I might as well just keep using them if they're still in good shape.  





Also the original switch is unfortunately broken, the internal mechanism that advances the contacts isn't working.  Being that this motor has six leads total, I'm guessing a 3PDT could be wired in.  Leads 1 and 3 have continuity, 2 and 4, and then 5 and 6.  The last two have a higher resistance, so those must be for the start winding.  I did make a quick note of where each wire was connected, so I can upload a picture of that too.


Yep a 3PDT will work.

Search the Ilg 163 toggle switch wiring, and that will give you an idea of how it works.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 03:26 am
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Dan Foley
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I was thinking it would be similar to the ILG's wiring.  
Here's how the levolier was hooked up:



As mentioned above, 1+3 have continuity, 2+4, and then 5+6.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 03:36 am
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Levi Mevis
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Hey Dan, How the heck did you manage to get those screws off of the fan blade assembly? I'm asking because the heads on those screws looked like they were stripped out to the point that a phillips bit screwdriver would have a hard time unscrewing those screws.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 03:59 am
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Dan Foley
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Levi Mevis wrote: Hey Dan, How the heck did you manage to get those screws off of the fan blade assembly? I'm asking because the heads on those screws looked like they were stripped out to the point that a phillips bit screwdriver would have a hard time unscrewing those screws.

Two of them actually unscrewed without a problem, but the mangled one required drilling into the center and then using an extractor bit.  I picked up new mounting hardware for the hub, since they're just standard 1/4-20 bolts.

Last edited on Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 04:02 am by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 05:57 am
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Levi Mevis
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Ok, I was wondering about that.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2019 10:16 pm
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Dan Foley
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I started cleaning the blade today, and the motor is also back together with some new extension leads on the stator.



I did flip the motor tag around, even though it was most likely in the correct position when it was upside down.  Andrew Block mentioned that it was probably a ceiling mount circulator before someone attached it to that Patton pedestal.  I'd almost like to find a counter-top pedestal mount for it.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2019 01:07 am
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Dan Foley
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Finished putting it back together, and now I just have to wire everything up. I'll wind up taking a few more pictures once it's out of the basement.


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 Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2019 07:47 am
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David Allen
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Dan Foley wrote: Finished putting it back together, and now I just have to wire everything up. I'll wind up taking a few more pictures once it's out of the basement.



Dan, that looks great!  The "ambience" of the basement lighting does make for a good photo, as well.

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