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Century S-3 152  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Sep 22nd, 2019 11:11 pm
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Mark Olson
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I tried to run this fan, but it would not go. Investigation revealed that the stator had an open winding.
How in the heck do you get the stator out without damaging it???
I popped the name plate off, as the rivets go into the stator. The cage struts attach to the motor with 1/4-20 bolts.
My plan, use long 1/4-20 screws to press the stator out, failed miserably. Yes, the stator came out, but I damaged the windings (and the first lamination) in the process.

Anyway, a rewind is the only recourse. Here are a few photos  beginning the process.





Now we're cookin' !!

Is it soup yet?

Attached Image (viewed 382 times):

20190922_170358_resized_1.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:28 am
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Mark Olson
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Well, I got the stator cleaned up in preparation for a rewind.


Here is my attempt at the winding diagram.



I do have a dilemma, however.
My fan is a 50 cycle.
Should I rewind the motor 50 cycle, as it left the factory?
Or should I rewind it for 60 cycles?

Here is the tag.

The stator housing is stamped to reflect the tag data.

Here is an interesting inscription, I have no reason to believe that it did not leave the factory with this.
Not sure what to make of it.

Anyway, are there any motor men out there watching?
Rewind for 50 cycle or 60 cycle?
Is there any chance that the 50 cycle fan blade has a different pitch?
Any and all comments are welcome, I will gladly hear what I want to and disregard the rest.

P.S. : Sorry about the font size failing me i the middle of the post, but I don't feel like re-typing it; copy/paste doesn't seem to retain font size.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:48 am
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Steve Stephens
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Rewind for 50 cycle or 60 cycle?
Rewinding for 60 cycle might be better but, first, are the number of slots in the stator the same for 50 or 60 cycles?

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:55 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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I have a 50 cycle R&M and it runs fine. Plus it's not standard = cool factor

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:56 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Runs super cool, on a VARIAC @ 90 volts

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:58 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Tag

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:58 am
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Mark Olson
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Steve Stephens wrote:
Rewind for 50 cycle or 60 cycle?
Rewinding for 60 cycle might be better but, first, are the number of slots in the stator the same for 50 or 60 cycles?Yes, I am no expert, this is my first rewind, but the pole positions don't change.
The one thing that bothers me is that the phase winding is offset from the main winding by two slots, or 20 degrees,
not the usual 45 degrees for a 4 pole start winding, but there is no disconnect, or centrifugal switch.
The phase winding is energized anytime the fan is running.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 02:07 am
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Steve Stephens
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I had a 40 cycle Century skeletal and it ran well but not too much power and it got hot after about 20 minutes.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 10:00 am
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Mark Olson
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I have come to a conclusion on the rewind.
After doing the math, the wire size does not change, and the number of turns is 9/10's of the original, after factoring for modern voltage.
Too darn easy, now for the hard part....

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 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2019 01:22 pm
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David Allen
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Thanks for sharing your rewind job here!  I'm looking forward to seeing how you go about it. Looking to learn and observe from others.
Sincerely,
David

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 Posted: Tue Oct 8th, 2019 01:23 am
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Mark Olson
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Here goes the re-wind.



First, new gaskets are needed between the laminations and stator shell.
Red RTV would have worked here, but I went "old school."
The gaps were measured with .010" fishpaper and enough gaskets were cut from the same.




The gaskets need to be cut to get them in the groove.



Here are the gaskets installed (front and back).


Varnished, peened, and baked.



Slot sleeves were made of .010" fish paper, folded, cuffed, and installed.





Dowels were fit into the empty pole slots to facilitate winding.
I am hand winding; it is an exercise in counting.




One pole finished.




Four run poles finished.



Side view.




Next, the phase, or "start" windings.
I have already done one pole, but it is a little more involved, so till next time...

Last edited on Tue Oct 8th, 2019 02:01 am by Mark Olson

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 Posted: Tue Oct 8th, 2019 12:50 pm
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Alex Rushing
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Looks great so far, Mark! O_O

I think I'd try a simpler motor if I wanted to learn to rewind. Hats off to you for going big!

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 Posted: Tue Oct 8th, 2019 01:12 pm
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David Allen
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Wonderful to see this come together! The hand-winding looks like you'll end up with a much more compact job than winding on a form and then inserting the coils.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 8th, 2019 01:31 pm
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Todd Adornato
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Dayum! How long did it take you to complete winding the four run poles alone? I think I’d be farming out that job...

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 Posted: Sat Oct 12th, 2019 06:56 pm
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Jeff Jones
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Looks nice! Question though. What purpose do those round gaskets serve that you put in first? If they only go on the 2 ends how does that provide any insulation in the middle? Just by air gap?

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 Posted: Sat Oct 12th, 2019 07:29 pm
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Mark Olson
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Todd Adornato wrote: Dayum! How long did it take you to complete winding the four run poles alone? I think I’d be farming out that job...The run windings  were completed in  a day.
The phase windings took a lot longer. I completed them in a couple of hours per day for six days.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 12th, 2019 07:33 pm
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Mark Olson
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Jeff Jones wrote: Looks nice! Question though. What purpose do those round gaskets serve that you put in first? If they only go on the 2 ends how does that provide any insulation in the middle? Just by air gap?The lamination frame was not tight to the laminations from the factory.
When I burnt out the stator there was a gap that was originally filled with something, I assume that it was a paper gasket.
There are also wooden dowels for wedges to hold the windings tight.

More photos soon.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 13th, 2019 04:35 pm
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Mark Olson
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Dilemma:


I don't want to install the stator into the motor housing without testing it, but I can't test it without installing it!
Rotation has been proved using an old aluminum electrolytic capacitor lowered into the energized stator.


It is impossible to align the armature in the stator to check it out thoroughly, but the armature "wants" to turn.
Current and voltage are relatively meaningless at this point.


The motor housing is machined to 5.075" I.D., and the stator is 5.080" O.D.
That is a .005'" interference fit, quite beyond "press fit". If I install the stator and it doesn't work, Then it is heck to get back out, and the risk of severe winding damage is quite high.


I do not have the facilities to properly change either dimension, the I.D., or the O.D.


The stator is in the freezer now, i will check to see how much it shrinks. The largest change in dimension will probably be with the housing in the oven, but even if the stator dropped in and I need to take it back out, I'm screwed.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 13th, 2019 08:56 pm
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Mark Olson
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I went to my neighbors house and used his bench mounted disk sander to dress down the O.D. of the stator until it was a light slip fit.

Then, I went home and tested the fan. It runs. The current draw is a bit over one amp on high speed, and goes up on slower speeds. I assume that is characteristic of the fan speed design.

Anyway, my first motor wind was a success. The bearings are worn and need replacing, but I knew that already.
I would post a video, but I don't have a Youtube account. More pictures of this restore are coming, including the stator pix.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 14th, 2019 11:20 am
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Lane Shirey
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Unless I’m missing something, current draw should decrease on the lower speeds.  All fans I’ve worked on are like this.  

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 Posted: Mon Oct 14th, 2019 11:36 am
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Mark Olson
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Lane Shirey wrote: Unless I’m missing something, current draw should decrease on the lower speeds.  All fans I’ve worked on are like this.  Of course you are right, I moved the phase winding choke tap from 5 to 3, that changed the way the fan started, but the fan will start with the tap on 1, although very weakly. I have good reason to believe that the start/run windings are "backwards" and I may need to put the stator in the other way. I will investigate this further after work this evening.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 15th, 2019 08:58 am
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Mark Olson
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The windings were connected wrong. I tried all connection possibilities with the stator installed in one position, not the backwards position.


The fan runs the correct direction, has five distinct speeds, current is least on low (1 amp @ 120 volts) and increases in steps with each speed increase (2 amps @ 120 volts). The motor makes a peculiar whirring noise. I suppose the whirring sound is normal??


Anyway, I am satisfied that it runs correctly (with worn out bearings), so I am proceeding with the restoration.

Last edited on Tue Oct 15th, 2019 09:01 am by Mark Olson

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