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Face Book vs AFCA Forum  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Feb 9th, 2020 05:14 pm
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Larry Miceli
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Maybe I'm preaching to the choir, but I have seen a disturbing trend on the AFCA Face Book site where people are taking entry level fans (like a 29646 or GE AOU), taping off the motor tag (or not) spraying some Rustoleum paint all over everything including the cord and hawking them on ebay as a "restored" fan. And claiming they are an AFCA member because of the membership on the FB site.
I have nothing against Emerson 29646's (sorry Kim) or GE AOU's. I started my restorations on those same fans. But I didn't think that having a FB page for the group would result in a whole bunch of people basically appropriating the AFCA name because they post a few pictures on the FB site.  For the most part, these "restorations" look like a fire waiting to happen!

Now, I enjoy the FB site and I look at it more than the forum these days as my work restricts access to a lot of outside web sites, but has anyone considered making membership in the AFCA a pre-requisite to acceptance into the FB group? 

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 9th, 2020 11:37 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Well, as a moderator to a FB site (there are numerous) I would say a big no. Our BST forum is often ignored in terms of our own rules. FB is the wild wild west my friend. I have seen poor paint jobs and hack work from members and non AFCA members. Buyers need to educate themselves. I have personally received damaged/sub standard work from our own membership. I keep it to myself.Lesson Learned, don't deal with them. Go to meets & see the merch in person.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 12:17 am
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Allen Bennett
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No worries from me as I do ZERO social media!  No Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.  Fact is, I've not watched a single television news cast of any kind in almost four years.  People may think I'm out of touch, but I am a much happier dude!

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 01:22 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Yes - I was in broadcasting for 30 years and rarely watch the news

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 03:44 am
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David A Cherry
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Yes - I was in broadcasting for 30 years and rarely watch the news

Steven... I have come to the conclusion that real informative news cost money, if you didn't pay for it,it is not real..it is hype.. it is divisive because divisive sells, personally I think Fox and CNN strings are being pulled by a group of smart investors,but I have no proof ..truth is very boring, and doesn't sell very well so you have to pay for it... as far as Facebook goes it is the wild wild West, if you don't think for yourself chances are someone else will think for you.. if you watch Fox news Democrats are destroying the country ..if you watch CNN Republicans are destroying the country.. don't be an idiot,. happy fan collecting! 

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 04:41 am
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William Dunlap
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:up:Allen Bennett wrote: No worries from me as I do ZERO social media!  No Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.  Fact is, I've not watched a single television news cast of any kind in almost four years.  People may think I'm out of touch, but I am a much happier dude!

:up:

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 03:46 pm
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David Lewis
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David, you just described precisely what I feel may be the demise of our great nation.  Hopefully someday there will be a cure for stupid. Now lets talk antique fans.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 04:50 pm
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Tristan Crider
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Last edited on Mon Feb 10th, 2020 10:53 pm by Tristan Crider

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 04:53 pm
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David Kilnapp
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I have purchased many of the fans that I highly prize from AFCA members and for the most part they come well packed and as advertised. And I have made some great friendships along the way. Dennis Lebow, Rick Powell, Mike Rathberger and Steve Stevens come to mind - wonderful people and really good deals on some great fans. Best place to buy a fan is to go to a local fan meet! I’ve sold a few fans for well below my cost to other members at fan meets. The buyers were happy and so was I!

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 06:48 pm
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Alex Rushing
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Larry,
I am glad you brought this up. I'm a huge fan of the FB site as well, because it does give some people a chance to interact with more knowledgeable people, as where they may not have ever found the AFCA site itself. I do think some of the FB page membership are seriously lacking in scrupuls and ability. There are a couple of members who do way-below-standard work and call it a restoration. I am not sure if they believe their stuff to truly be passable, or if they are just trying to turn a buck. I imagine a little of both. Many of the paint jobs I see are true spray-bomb, like where you mentioned the painted tags and wire, which I have PM'ed some members about. I always get the same response, "I'll change the wire and grommets later", "I'll clean the tag later", etc. The next day the fan is plopped on the marketplace looking as it did after the spray bomb exploded.
As I've said before, my work isn't going to win any show awards, but I put a LOT of work in properly breaking down, repairing, cleaning, completely stripping, painting, assembly, and finish work(wire, grommets, felt). I started posting the fans I've restored/restomodded on the FB page in hopes the copious photos and details would spur some to "step up" their work(now I admit to enjoying the work sharing posts). However, now that I enjoy the discussions and know many members there, it has become obvious that a few members cannot tell the difference between my work and the really careless work. Or they don't care.

Anyway, I urge all members here to cross-post their fan projects to the FB page! Hopefully some more examples and bar setting will get the younger/beginning members to not settle for painted tags, sandpaper badges, no grommets, painted unchanged wire, etc.

Worst part is that of someone will proudly post fan projects with such poor fit & finish, you know they aren't even opening the fans up and  doing proper electrical/mechanical repairs.
Dangerous and wreckless come to mine here.
The fan Projects I post don't seem to help move the bar up any, which sucks because I have 10-20x the time put into the fans I work on. I'll keep posting them, because there are several younger members I am friends with who have raised their standard from communicating with me on resto work... thankfully.

I am a very non confrontational person, so I rarely Point bad work out in public, but perhaps I should?

And the sub-par work is what we see for sale most of the time...ebay... marketplace....etc. :(


Last edited on Mon Feb 10th, 2020 07:16 pm by Alex Rushing

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 09:56 pm
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David A Cherry
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David Lewis wrote: David, you just described precisely what I feel may be the demise of our great nation.  Hopefully someday there will be a cure for stupid. Now lets talk antique fans.David .... I see you live in Montana, I lived in Great Falls for two years when I was in the Air Force.. when it comes to common sense Montanans have it in bucket loads.. living in Montana you better get with the program or freeze to death.. cold does not tolerate stupid..

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 10:39 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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I have been driving new FB members to AFCA membership & to attend fan meets, we do need a new generation - - look at the fanfair photos!! Bunch of old dudes, like myself. 10 years from now we could post a RIP of current members X ??, sad but true. I cut & paste fan dates & places and tell them you don't have to be a member to use BST, etc.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 10th, 2020 10:40 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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ANd seen plenty of AFCA threads go sideways & down a rabbit hole

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 09:17 pm
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Sean Campbell
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I’ve seen the poor restoration, scams, misinformation, and other such things on the FB site (things social media has in spades anyways). I can’t recall a time i saw that level of blatant fraud on our site. The choice is yours. Just my two cents.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 11th, 2020 10:58 pm
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Steve Stephens
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I'm all for pointing out poor workmanship, unoriginal parts, etc.   It may not please the seller but will help educate others.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 02:43 am
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David Allen
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So here is my two cents worth.

Facebook, and particularly the "groups" functionality, has been a very corrosive and negative thing for many enthusiast groups. On a dedicated forum, such as this, people tend to respect each other and more or less stay on-topic, or on related topics. It seems that on Facebook, people always want to go beyond the groups and look at other members personal Facebook pages. That should not be a problem, but lately I have seen some people who I respected, spewing hate and small-mindedness that I find extremely distasteful. Had I not known about this, I would still be able to interact with these individuals on the forum (not this one, another forum), but now that I've seen true colors, the respect is gone..... and I respect an individual one time.  

Another way to put it is like this. I'm OK to interact with all kinds of people for specific things like antique fan collecting. I don't need to know their personal politics, and I will help anyone. But once a person has brought to light that they are unwholesome or have very undesirable viewpoints - I can never "unsee" that and can't be helpful any longer.

Another big issue with Facebook is that the Groups have zero method to organize or archive projects. There is no thread format, no way to build a knowledgebase.  The problem is, people find the Facebook Groups way too convenient and they spend their time posting there, and then don't post here where it will be available in the future.


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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 04:27 am
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Alex Rushing
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David Allen,
I've gotten myself in a bit of a conundrum on FB in regards to a similar scenario. Initially it seemed there were a few cool people who wanted to just talk fans in FB messenger as friends(I do mark them "fan friends" on what they can see about my family and stuff), and while most people are very respectful and we make it a point to never illude to politics and/or religion. The two things people are most adamant about about arguing about that simultaneously aren't going to change anyone's minds.
Recently, one of the said members whom I am "fan friends" with decided to send me a bunch of crazy conspiracy stuff in a video. I recognized the scenes in the "banned news clip" to be inaccurate and designed to instill a sense of unnecessary fear, and subsequently pointed it out as politely as possible. I am never disrespectful to anyone, regardless if their personal ideology aligns with mine or not, but he got really mad about it.
I've never sent anything other than fan stuff to the fan friends, and am very neutral and non-confrontational on my FB page. I don't even post political or religious stuff as a matter of principle.

You make an excellent point about keeping fan talk about fans. I would feel rude just unfriending people for not being informed enough to control the share button, but I would rather not have to read/see the vitriol and nonsense that is plastered on my news feed. I can hide the feed, but then they message me asking if I saw their post. This is not common, but has happened.

Anyway, that is a lot of rambling on my part, and apologies for that. I guess the point is that I wish people on the FB pages conducted themselves in a manner similar to how AFCA forum members do. Here at the forum, stuff extraneous to antiques/fan/tech/etc talk are moderated well. My only complaint with the forum is the lack of activity. It isn't the fault of the membership, because FB is always going to garner more attention since there are so few restraints on behavior. I'm flabbergasted at how many of these people on the FB pages "get into it" over personal ideologies, as if it were going to change anyone's mind.

Catch 22: I enjoy the FB page a lot, but don't enjoy the part where friend requests come in, and I feel like it is rude to just decline off-hand. Then after accepting, I find out their pages are plastered with stuff that makes them seem petty. Now, of the fan friends I've made there, only a few fell into the category of disrespectful/undignified in what they allow on their news feeds. Most of us have great messenger conversations frequently, with an understanding it is a social platform, and not personal(leaving out ideological arguments).
In one case, a member sent a friend request and warned me he posted a lot of opinion news, so we chat in messenger. Works for me, as I try to understand why people think the way they do.

Like I said, one of the best things, as members, we can do is to cross post our projects and collection discussions on here and the FB page. We aren't going to get the FB-only people to come here(and possibly join the AFCA ) without effort, so we need to be here AND there to hopefully encourage new fan enthusiasts to check the forum out.


Last edited on Wed Feb 12th, 2020 05:29 am by Alex Rushing

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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 05:04 pm
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David Allen
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Alex Rushing wrote: David Allen,
I've gotten myself in a bit of a conundrum on FB in regards to a similar scenario. 
........


Thanks for the feedback. I figured I was not the only one who had that sort of experience. 

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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 06:00 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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I cross Post, Ignore Friends requests, drive traffic to our site. The more the merrier, look at the demographics of our membership, average age = ??

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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 07:16 pm
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David A Cherry
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Facebook is good for AFCA... it brings in fresh young members, AFCA is good for Facebook, it brings in reference material and much expertise on the subject..., sometimes I'm not in the mood for meat .......I just want pudding.... The two fan sites compliment each other..

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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2020 09:36 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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I agree 100%

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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 08:41 pm
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Richard Daugird
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David Allen wrote:
Another big issue with Facebook is that the Groups have zero method to organize or archive projects. There is no thread format, no way to build a knowledgebase.  The problem is, people find the Facebook Groups way too convenient and they spend their time posting there, and then don't post here where it will be available in the future.


That is what I have a problem with as well, I don't like the format.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 10:47 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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LOL - - of topic thread! Pre-1950?

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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 01:28 am
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David Allen
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: LOL - - of topic thread! Pre-1950?
This forum really needs a discussion section, for website related or semi-off-topic threads. There are not really any appropriate subforums for this. 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 05:27 am
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David A Cherry
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Don't worry.... Facebook will be ruined soon enough.

Last edited on Sat Feb 15th, 2020 01:10 am by David A Cherry

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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 09:43 am
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Pete Moulds
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Oops. Never having used Face Book, I was unaware there even was an AFCA Facebook site!
Is Face Book really the best sort of medium to represent AFCA and what it stands for?

The fact that there is now a wider distribution of AFCA ideals on to the social media an indication that the official AFCA urgently needs to expand its reach?

Where are we with the changes to AFCA which we discussed on this  site quite recently; about making it more expansive and educational and, "heavens forbid", making it more international?

Is Facebook replacing my proposal to have a site for people to post fan photos independent of  the 'Galleries Section" ? Are we missing opportunities here to expand AFCA but under our umbrella?

Last edited on Fri Feb 14th, 2020 09:48 am by Pete Moulds

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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 07:49 pm
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Alex Rushing
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It is kind of a dilemma from what I can surmise. One hand: There will be, and are, other antique fan groups on FB. If the AFCA withdraws an FB group, most will simply increase traffic on other FB antique fan groups. Other hand: The groups garner more attention, because they require no monetary involvement. And while AFCA members may feel the membership is valuable, beginner fan guys and accumulators may not understand the importance of a paid membership.The downside is that without the FB page, the main site gets less exposure, but with it people are less likely to have paid memberships.

I do feel as if the people who REALLY want to properly work on their fans will come here, and the FB page does keep some unscrupulous fan "fixers" from blowing the forum here up.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 15th, 2020 09:15 am
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Jeff Whitfield
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Just tell the guys on FB to visit our site and find everything they need. They should be able to figure out they need to join to do searches for information. If not ... Do you really want that guy working on your fan or selling one to you?

Last edited on Sat Feb 15th, 2020 09:16 am by Jeff Whitfield

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 Posted: Sat Feb 15th, 2020 03:26 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Like I said, I am driving traffic HERE!! My Latest BST posts on FB don't need to HAVE PRICES - - They must come to OUR BST site (I include a link) to see my nuggets.

1900 Cake
1901 Cake
1909 BMY

BAIT!! Advertising g 101 -My Job for 35 Years

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