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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Westinghouse fan with 1896 patent date on tag
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Westinghouse fan with 1896 patent date on tag | |||||
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| Westinghouse fan with 1896 patent date on tag | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 06:23 pm |
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1st Post |
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Anthony Lindsey AFCA Member 
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This seems like an old fan with oddball blade etc. Comments? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-RESERVE-Unusual-Antique-circa-1896-Westinghouse-14-Electric-Fan/373415165894?hash=item56f1473fc6%3Ag%3AYQgAAOSw-59f8ILG&LH_ItemCondition=4
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 06:54 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Noah Britt AFCA Member 
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That's a Westinghouse pancake; 1000 times cooler than any GE pancake if you ask me.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 07:16 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Tristan Crider AFCA Member 
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I'd love to have that fan.. Wrong blades though, right? Those look like Tesla blades . Last edited on Mon Jan 4th, 2021 07:23 pm by Tristan Crider |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 08:54 pm |
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4th Post |
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Sean Campbell AFCA Member 
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That...is like no Westy pancake I’ve ever seen. Maybe it’s a transitional model? I’m not really sure, but something tells me this is quite rare. Hopefully a member can snag her.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 09:16 pm |
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5th Post |
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Michael Rathberger AFCA Member 
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Sean is probably right, a tweener or a prototype, I never seen it before. It's not a Westy Cake as we know them. Dig the switch, it's design is out there. The plug is a 1 year only Hubbell from 1903 and I'd say the fan is the same year.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 11:36 pm |
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6th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member 
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Pics for the future when the auction is gone.         
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| Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2021 11:50 pm |
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7th Post |
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Jeff Rusnak AFCA Member 
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I’m no expert but I’d say that the fan is an early variant of a Westinghouse Pancake.The blade is very different, and the switch is very unusual, plus the head wire goes thru the rear of the motor ? Extremely unusual !!  Be interesting to how much $$$ it fetches !! Too Rich for my blood !! 
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 01:07 am |
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8th Post |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member 
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The Style number is much lower than the usually seen Westy pancake. I think it is a design that came right after the Tesla but was not made long before a redesign to the Westy pancake we know. Never seen this one before. Westy pancake that is the "common" one is Style 28117. This strange pancake is Style 18025 The Westy "Tesla" is Style 3856. Using the Style numbers the Tesla is the oldest of these three models, the newly seen "strange pancake" would seem to be the next oldest and the common pancake the newest of the bunch. The Tesla is 1896-1902? and the common pancake 1903-1904. Where does this new pancake fit in? Possibly a model that was either unsatisfactory or Westinghouse wanted to make some changes resulting in the common pancake model. Maybe a patent search for the patent dates would tell us something. Last edited on Wed Jan 6th, 2021 04:54 pm by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 01:39 am |
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9th Post |
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Tom Morel AFCA Member 
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I saw this and also thought that it was an early transition pancake. I wouldn't be surprised if that Tesla blade is original. The patina matches and the fact that this is likely earlier backs that up I think. The seller is having UPS pack this- I hope the buyer can prevent that. I've never seen a switch like that. Note the unusual wire as well, perhaps original. Hopefully the buyer is a member and can relay this wire somehow to Tony Clayton so Westy pancake owners can buy some. It sure looks old and perhaps original.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 04:13 am |
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10th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Steve Stephens wrote: The Style number is much lower than the usually seen Westy pancake. I think it is a design that came right after the Tesla but was not made long before a redesign to the Westy pancake we know. Never seen this one before. If it has a style no. .............my bet it was on the market with others like it in smaller numbers. Special purpose? Last edited on Tue Jan 5th, 2021 04:14 am by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 06:12 am |
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11th Post |
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William Dunlap AFCA Member 
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What a cool fan. Maybe someone I know will snatch that bad boy up...... Love the switch. It's a great design. Cheers, Bill
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 10:44 am |
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12th Post |
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Michael Rathberger AFCA Member
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Is it a 4 wire head wire? The cage is 14.5" according to the description.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 04:26 pm |
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13th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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William Dunlap wrote: What a cool fan. Love the switch. It's a great design. I hope it makes an appearance at a FanFair.  Would make a great feature article in the Fan Collector Magazine. With lots of pictures of course! 
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| Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2021 11:00 pm |
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14th Post |
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Rick Hoener AFCA Member 
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One thing for sure, thats not the only one in America.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 02:30 am |
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15th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey AFCA Member 
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You guys should give thanks to the seller for the free exposure, glad it is out of my relm of $$$.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 03:55 pm |
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16th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Two days into a 7 day listing... How high is the sky? 
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 04:56 pm |
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17th Post |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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Westy pancake that is the "common" one is Style 28117. This strange pancake is Style 18025 The Westy "Tesla" is Style 3856. Using the Style numbers the Tesla is the oldest of these three models, the newly seen "strange pancake" would seem to be the next oldest and the common pancake the newest of the bunch. The Tesla is 1896-1902? and the common pancake 1903-1904. Where does this new pancake fit in? Possibly a model that was either unsatisfactory or Westinghouse wanted to make some changes resulting in the common pancake model. Maybe a patent search for the patent dates would tell us something. A very interesting fan for sure.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 07:28 pm |
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18th Post |
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James Henderson AFCA Member
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I believe the fan to be all original and untouched. It must be a very early production piece that was quickly updated with a very short run. I know of no one else who has one but like everyone else, would love to have it.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 07:44 pm |
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19th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey AFCA Member
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well if 3 more show up . . .
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 08:19 pm |
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20th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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A very interesting drum switch, indeed!  Also notice the for head wires!  Drum switch and four head wires... Wuddup widdat? A 3-position switch, Off, High and Low. In the High position, it runs as a 4-pole motor. In the Low position, it runs as an 8-pole motor, consisting of 4 wound poles and 4 consequent (not wound) poles. In the below link, read: "Method of Consequent Pole." https://circuitglobe.com/pole-changing-method    Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2021 06:22 am by Jim Kovar |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 08:33 pm |
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21st Post |
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Michael Rathberger AFCA Member
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Based on the who the bidders are I'd say they're more knowledgeable than us.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 08:44 pm |
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22nd Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Do y'all think the seller is doing the "happy dance" right now? 
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 08:47 pm |
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23rd Post |
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Noah Britt AFCA Member
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Jim Kovar wrote: Do y'all think the seller is doing The seller probably thought it was worth about a grand.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 09:47 pm |
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24th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Based on the who the bidders are I'd say they're more knowledgeable than us. Sometimes the knowledge may sit right in front of our face unseen. In the past it has always been stated and believed the Westinghouse dual speed Tesla/Hassler patented fan motor was marketed 96-02. The last image I have seen of the dual speed Tesla is in electrical trade of 01. Click the book link below.American Electrician - Google Books Take a little trip to Google books and find just one electrical trade book with the 1902 Westinghouse alternating current desk fan motor. If you find it, please copy and paste it here, and validate it is a 1902 image. I myself would like to see it. Check out the 02 American Electrician book link below, give it your best shot to find the Westinghouse alternating current desk fan when you click on the link. American Electrician - Google Books    Westinghouse DC Fan Motors 03 and 04. - Pre-1950 (Antique) - Antique Fan Collectors Association - AFCA Forums    Last edited on Wed Jan 6th, 2021 10:11 pm by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 10:14 pm |
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25th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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If I am right, the old girl was a one season run. Now does it make sense. BTW...I wouldn't bother bidding on it. Just enjoy the pictures, they last a long time. Last edited on Wed Jan 6th, 2021 10:21 pm by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 10:34 pm |
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26th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member
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I wonder if the Fan Museum is bidding? It would be perfect to see it there. Last edited on Wed Jan 6th, 2021 10:34 pm by Don Tener |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 11:30 pm |
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27th Post |
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Chris A. Campbell AFCA Member 
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Sales tax alone would cover cost of something nice.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2021 11:47 pm |
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28th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: Sales tax alone would cover cost of something nice.Yea it sure would. Tax here where I live at this point would be $1,260  Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2021 02:13 am by Don Tener |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 12:41 am |
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29th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 01:04 am |
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30th Post |
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Jim Roadt AFCA Member 
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somebody really likes that fan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 02:49 am |
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31st Post |
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Anthony Lindsey AFCA Member
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Actually 2 people (or more) really really like that fan. Alot.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 03:32 am |
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32nd Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Maybe Ben had his 2 cents in the fan motor operation? 1498394607724515518-00695938 (storage.googleapis.com)  
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 11:00 am |
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33rd Post |
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Michael Rathberger AFCA Member
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Russ Huber wrote: If I am right, the old girl was a one season run. Now does it make sense. Just to complete your lineup a little. It appears the apple didn't fall all that far from the early tree. I have never seen a picture or knew the subject fan existed until now. But I do believe there's a lot of knowledge off this site that never makes it here. If I could have either the DC Westy you pictured or the subject fan, I'd still take the DC. Attached Image (viewed 517 times): Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2021 11:01 am by Michael Rathberger |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 05:17 pm |
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34th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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We have come a long ways with fan motor knowledge. The Globe/Paragon/Towle/Fidelity fan motor history is one good example, along with a number of other fan motor manufacturers evolution. When this Westinghouse fan in question was brought to my attention by email on an ebay link from another member, I didn't think much of it. I don't watch or participate on ebay anymore. Once I tried to locate it in the books based on its construction and style number, I stumbled on a heads up. There is nothing in the available electrical trade 02 books of the 02 Westinghouse desk fan I am aware of. I remember in past running with the general fan collector belief the Telsa patent dual speed was on the market 96-02. There are to many features on this Westinghouse ebay fan to support the transition of the Tesla patent dual speed to the 'missing' Westinghouse fan motor for the 02 season. I have not concrete proof to validate my beliefs, but I am confident this is what is fueling the bidding war. I call it a battle of egos. At that price, I could leggo of my ego. All due respects intended. To each his own. I remember Loren Haroldson in past stating.... it is just a silly fan. Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2021 06:38 pm by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 05:55 pm |
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35th Post |
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Tom Morel AFCA Member
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Russ Huber wrote: If I am right, the old girl was a one season run. Now does it make sense.I agree Russ. There's a lot of other things I'd rather have than a Westinghouse Pancake variant for 18+ thousand. I think the Peerless Kick Start is a far cooler fan that another member bought for 12K. I'll have to keep my eye out for one- could get a lot of money apparently.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 06:01 pm |
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36th Post |
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Daniel OToole AFCA Member
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Amen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 06:44 pm |
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37th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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. Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2021 10:45 pm by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 08:00 pm |
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38th Post |
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James Henderson AFCA Member
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Kovar. It would be wise to stop bidding and wait till the final seconds to bid. You're just bidding up the price.😊
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 08:39 pm |
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39th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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James Henderson wrote: Kovar. It would be wise to stop bidding and wait till the final seconds to bid. You're just bidding up the price.😊 Haha! You're really funny, James.  Me,...  ...'cept for the head of hair...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2021 09:02 pm |
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40th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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Russ Huber wrote: I would get me... ...if I was the seller. For me... I've been eyeballin' this $95K hippopotamus couch. The fan proceeds would make a great down payment. The rest,... time payments! 
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