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Why would this fan command over $20,000?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon Jan 11th, 2021 11:10 pm
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Dennis Long
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Can someone help me understand what makes this fan so special that it would command this price? I don't question if this is too much, rather I just want to understand what makes this fan so valuable.  The tag says "Style 18025", and I couldn't find anything online about a Westinghouse 18025. The patent includes an 1896 date, but I know there's more to it than that, especially given its condition.  Here's the link if anyone wants to see the other pictures and description : https://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-RESERVE-Unusual-Antique-circa-1896-Westinghouse-14-Electric-Fan-/373415165894?nma=true&si=vHjKV%252Br6Yy5ysZzKTJXNsb5WfZw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Is picture #6 in the ad a speed control? In the picture above it's that little "lever" at 3 o'clock on the base.

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 Posted: Mon Jan 11th, 2021 11:19 pm
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Dennis Long
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Sorry, I failed to notice there's already a thread about this fan.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 01:27 am
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John Trier
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Each of us who first saw this had to come to grips with what they were looking at.  At first glance, it looked like a roasted WH pancake with a busted up cage and the wrong blade.  Well, ok, I'll click on it and take a look.  Very quickly it got our attention.   It has the general appearance of a WH pancake but it's also completely different.  Headwire coming out the back of the motor and with a wholly different back casting, a weird switch, with a weird casting to accommodate it.   Tesla blade.   No has ever seen anything like it, no one new it ever existed, and there's no catalog image of it.   But it's obviously correct and more or less complete.  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain.  Maybe.  I would like to know the shaft diameter.  WH pancake shafts are ⅜" and the Tesla's are 5/16".   I once had a WH pancake blade with a 5/16" shaft diameter, that would never fit on a WH pancake.  I've posted pictures of the 2 blades side by side, but it generated no interest, and remains unexplained. 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 01:31 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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It is unique for sure, but that being said I have one of a kind fans (As far as I Know) - - -An earlier Kick Start Fan seems like a better value, but when I paid $100 for my first "restored" fan I was shocked.& "It Moans" incomplete & not running, a museum piece

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 01:52 am
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John Trier
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: It is unique for sure, but that being said I have one of a kind fans (As far as I Know) - - -An earlier Kick Start Fan seems like a better value, but when I paid $100 for my first "restored" fan I was shocked.& "It Moans" incomplete & not running, a museum pieceHey Steven, if you have an earlier kick start fan, (Peerless is the only kickstart I know of),  I've never seen pictures of that and would sure like to.  

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:27 am
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Russ Huber
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John Trier wrote:  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain. 
Did you bid on it? 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:32 am
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John Trier
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Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote:  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain. 
Did you bid on it? 
No way, my crazy days are over.  

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:35 am
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Russ Huber
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John Trier wrote: Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote:  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain. 
Did you bid on it? 
No way, my crazy days are over.  

So, is it a bargin, or is it crazy?   :D

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:40 am
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John Trier
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Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote: Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote:  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain. 
Did you bid on it? 
No way, my crazy days are over.  

So, is it a bargin, or is it crazy?   :D
Ha!  Both.  Bargain to the new owner but for me crazy.  

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:42 am
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Russ Huber
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John Trier wrote: Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote: Russ Huber wrote: John Trier wrote:  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain. 
Did you bid on it? 
No way, my crazy days are over.  

So, is it a bargin, or is it crazy?   :D
Ha!  for me crazy.  


Now your talkin turkey.  :D

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:48 am
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Brice Nagelmaker
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Depends how crazy you are at the time. Looks like the bidding stalled out, who knows how bad that guy wanted that fan. When i used to sell on there i sold some big industrial hanging lights, about 20 a few at a time. some went for cheap most were good but a few were jackpots due to bid wars.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 09:19 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Dream fan, and I would not restore it - - not mine, just a dream to find one in the wild



Attached Image (viewed 455 times):

IMG_1939.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:35 pm
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Don Tener
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Dream fan, and I would not restore it - - not mine, just a dream to find one in the wild



Rust is not patina, Rust is damage that will continue to damage the fan. I would restore it.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:40 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Don Tener wrote: Steven P Dempsey wrote: Dream fan, and I would not restore it - - not mine, just a dream to find one in the wild



Rust is not patina, Rust is damage that will continue to damage the fan. I would restore it.



Rust can be neutralized. 






Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:40 pm by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:48 pm
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Stephen Chew
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That's a shame to leave that gorgeous fan in that condition.Rust is not patina!!!!!!!! I have all kind of conditions in my collection and don't have any like that and won't.

Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2021 03:51 pm by Stephen Chew

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 05:36 pm
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Don Tener
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: Don Tener wrote: Steven P Dempsey wrote: Dream fan, and I would not restore it - - not mine, just a dream to find one in the wild



Rust is not patina, Rust is damage that will continue to damage the fan. I would restore it.



Rust can be neutralized. 






After working on cars for years I know that isn't true. You can really slow it down but unless you get rid of it it eventually always comes back. 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 05:41 pm
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Louis Luu
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Rust can not be neutralize (acid/base). Rust can either be reduce or oxidized only. Rust is a state of oxidation with  oxygen. The charges can be reduce by removing the oxygen. Sorry...just having fun.

Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2021 05:42 pm by Louis Luu

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 05:44 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Don Tener wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote: Don Tener wrote: Steven P Dempsey wrote: Dream fan, and I would not restore it - - not mine, just a dream to find one in the wild



Rust is not patina, Rust is damage that will continue to damage the fan. I would restore it.



Rust can be neutralized. 






After working on cars for years I know that isn't true. You can really slow it down but unless you get rid of it it eventually always comes back. 


Any bare steel surface can rust. You just need to keep neutralized. Not a 1x event.


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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 06:04 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Many of you know how I like and keep patina on my fans but this rusty Peerless is beyond what I would have in my collection.   I was asked if I wanted to buy that Peerless and declined due to the stage of the rust and also declined to buy another that had been restored and lost out bidding on another Peerless AC.  Sometimes condition is the most important aspect of a fan (to me).
  I would llike to have that AC Peerless kickstart model of the same year (1903) to go with my DC model.





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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 06:18 pm
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Jim Kovar
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   An old Czech truism,...

"Rust Never Sleeps."  *







*   A great Neil Young & Crazy Horse
    album too.    My My, Hey Hey!   :D

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 06:42 pm
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Jim Kovar
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For some makes of fans,...



rust is an improvement!   :P


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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 06:46 pm
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William Dunlap
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As a past Jaguar enthusiast, I find that pic of a Mark 7 to be nightmarish. I'm afraid there's no saving that one.
I have to say, though, that a fan in this condition would likely be savable.
Cheers,
Bill

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 06:59 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Dennis Long wrote: Can someone help me understand what makes this fan so special that it would command this price? 

It's an early (c.1901 or 1902?) fan from a major and respected manufacturer and one that has never been seen until this auction as well as appearing to be in very good original condition.   It was made between the times of the Westinghouse Tesla and Westy "pancake" models, both higher revered.   The buyer was probably very motivated to add this "unknown" fan to his collection and there was another bidder who also wanted the fan.  As rare as it is I can see it bringing the money that it did.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 07:03 pm
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Jim Kovar
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" :up:," to what Steve posted one up.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2021 07:35 pm
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Jim Kovar
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Dennis Long wrote: Sorry, I failed to notice there's already a thread about this fan.
For future reference,...

http://www.afcaforum.com/forum1/61756.html

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2021 01:48 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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You guys are too easy to tweak - - I shoot any rusty fan with wd-40,This clock work "Fly Fan" still has some original red paint



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clock work paint 2.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2021 02:01 pm
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Daniel OToole
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I'd restore that rust 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2021 04:55 pm
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Tom Morel
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That needs to be restored and I'm not even one who buys restored fans.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2021 05:57 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Tom Morel wrote: That needs to be restored and I'm not even one who buys restored fans.From what I have seen in the photos of that old Westy I would first go the conservation route.  The fan is too old and rare to restore it so it looks NEW or, worse, BETTER THAN NEW.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2021 07:05 pm
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Tom Morel
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Steve Stephens wrote: Tom Morel wrote: That needs to be restored and I'm not even one who buys restored fans.From what I have seen in the photos of that old Westy I would first go the conservation route.  The fan is too old and rare to restore it so it looks NEW or, worse, BETTER THAN NEW.I agree, I was referring to Steven Dempsey's clock work fan. I don't think the Westinghouse is in poor shape.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2021 01:20 am
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Paul Seagle
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I thought the rusty look was the goal for all of them.  That's why I keep mine on a card table out back.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2021 01:36 am
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Brice Nagelmaker
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at least treat the rust and a good of wax

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2021 02:51 am
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Dennis Long
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John Trier wrote: Each of us who first saw this had to come to grips with what they were looking at.  At first glance, it looked like a roasted WH pancake with a busted up cage and the wrong blade.  Well, ok, I'll click on it and take a look.  Very quickly it got our attention.   It has the general appearance of a WH pancake but it's also completely different.  Headwire coming out the back of the motor and with a wholly different back casting, a weird switch, with a weird casting to accommodate it.   Tesla blade.   No has ever seen anything like it, no one new it ever existed, and there's no catalog image of it.   But it's obviously correct and more or less complete.  When has something like this ever happened. 20K? When that thing gets restored, that will seem like a bargain.  Maybe.  I would like to know the shaft diameter.  WH pancake shafts are ⅜" and the Tesla's are 5/16".   I once had a WH pancake blade with a 5/16" shaft diameter, that would never fit on a WH pancake.  I've posted pictures of the 2 blades side by side, but it generated no interest, and remains unexplained. 
Steve Stephens wrote: It's an early (c.1901 or 1902?) fan from a major and respected manufacturer and one that has never been seen until this auction as well as appearing to be in very good original condition.   It was made between the times of the Westinghouse Tesla and Westy "pancake" models, both higher revered.   The buyer was probably very motivated to add this "unknown" fan to his collection and there was another bidder who also wanted the fan.  As rare as it is I can see it bringing the money that it did.

John and Steve, thanks for walking me through the thought process on evaluating this fan. I have a much better understanding on what made this fan so valuable.  I really appreciated all the other comments throughout the thread.  Some funny stuff in there.  :D

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2021 03:01 am
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George Durbin
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Hi Dennis!

The members here are great people to know and deal with...
Just to let you know, I have a jr. with  a brass blade that is very rare... And I would sacrifice it for a hunnert thou!


Geo...

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2021 05:14 am
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Tom Morel
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Paul Seagle wrote: I thought the rusty look was the goal for all of them.  That's why I keep mine on a card table out back.Some members like to keep fans outside. I don't understand it either.

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