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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 06:36 pm
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Lonnie Cook
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Hello everyone,

I hope that I'm not on the wrong forum.  I'm not a regular viewer/contributor.

The forum helped me almost ten years when I was working on an Emerson 79648.  I hope that you can help me on an entirely different fan.

I have a period correct 12-volt Arnolt heater for my 1955 MG TF-1500.
https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/Accessories/arnolt_heater_santa.jpg

I foolishly separated the case of the motor about an inch to inspect damaged wires.  As I separated the case, the brushes slipped off of the end of the armature and onto the shaft.  You can see the brushes, shaft, and armature in the bottom photo.

My question:  How can I hold retract and hold the brushes to slip over the armature as I push the case together?

There is only a 3/8" space to work and the brushes are not directly in front of the opening. The springs are not strong, so the brushes are easily withdrawn.

Thanks for any help and suggestions that  you can give to me.

Lonnie Cook
Orlando, FL




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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 07:26 pm
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David Allen
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Lonnie Cook wrote: Hello everyone,

I hope that I'm not on the wrong forum.  I'm not a regular viewer/contributor.

The forum helped me almost ten years when I was working on an Emerson 79648.  I hope that you can help me on an entirely different fan.

I have a period correct 12-volt Arnolt heater for my 1955 MG TF-1500.
https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/Accessories/arnolt_heater_santa.jpg

I foolishly separated the case of the motor about an inch to inspect damaged wires.  As I separated the case, the brushes slipped off of the end of the armature and onto the shaft.  You can see the brushes, shaft, and armature in the bottom photo.

My question:  How can I hold retract and hold the brushes to slip over the armature as I push the case together?

There is only a 3/8" space to work and the brushes are not directly in front of the opening. The springs are not strong, so the brushes are easily withdrawn.

Thanks for any help and suggestions that  you can give to me.

Lonnie Cook
Orlando, FL





Hello Lonnie. All is not lost! The solution to your problem is to insert the rotor into the rear housing first, while you have room to work with the brushes. Then, slide the stator down over the rotor, and finally the front cover on the motor.

Step-by-step, this would be a possible procedure...

First, debur the shaft so it doesn't damage the front bearing as it's withdrawn.

Slide the front housing off the stator and set the front housing aside.

Set the rear housing of the motor in a vise, with the jaws padded so that you don't damage it. You want the open side up, so that gravity will hold the rotor down in the bearing once it's installed.

Place the rotor through the stator, then lift the stator up to gain access to the brush gear. From this perspective, you should be able to manipulate the brushes with pick tools, and slide the rotor all the way down into the bearing; so that the brushes are on the commutator.

Next, press the stator into position into the rear housing. Finally, the front housing will slide over the shaft, and be pressed over the stator. 

This should work on that little motor. Hope it helps!  :clap:
Sincerely,
David

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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 08:41 pm
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Lonnie Cook
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Thanks for your fast reply David.

I don't think that I can completely separate the case without damaging the wires.

A fiber disk is riveted to the output end of the motor case.  The brush holders are riveted through the fiber disk and the case.  All wires are soldered in place.

The four bright rivets in the photo hold the fiber disk to the case.  The four brass rivets attach the brush holders.  The rivets are solid - I can't insert a stiff wire through them to hold the brushes back.

I tried to insert as stiff wire through the two holes for the screws that hold the case together.  No luck.

Still trying.

- Lonnie




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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 08:56 pm
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David Allen
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Lonnie Cook wrote: Thanks for your fast reply David.

I don't think that I can completely separate the case without damaging the wires.

A fiber disk is riveted to the output end of the motor case.  The brush holders are riveted through the fiber disk and the case.  All wires are soldered in place.

The four bright rivets in the photo hold the fiber disk to the case.  The four brass rivets attach the brush holders.  The rivets are solid - I can't insert a stiff wire through them to hold the brushes back.

I tried to insert as stiff wire through the two holes for the screws that hold the case together.  No luck.

Still trying.

- Lonnie


That's frustrating. With all due respect; from the looks of the wires, you would be wise to replace them while you have it this far apart. They should be flexible enough so that the motor can be disassembled without undue risk of breakage.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 09:01 pm
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Lonnie Cook
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Old cars (and old fans) will drive you crazy!  Maybe that's why they are so appealing.

I fear that you are right.  I'll keep trying.  If no luck, then I'll replace the motor with a new modern motor.

Thanks,

- Lonnie


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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 09:05 pm
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David Allen
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I wouldn't replace the motor - just the wiring where it's cracked up.  :D
That motor looks almost new inside.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 31st, 2020 09:29 pm
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Lonnie Cook
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The entire heater including the fan are almost new.  The brushes are long.  The armature is barely scuffed.  I want to use this original motor.  A new one is only a last resort.

I'm in year #3, maybe #4, of the total restoration of the MG.  It won't be "concourse quality", but what I call a "drivable concourse quality."  I work just as hard on keeping and restoring hidden items as I do items in full view.

The rivets must be removed from the fiber disk and the brush holders to separate the case.  I don't think that I can feasibly rivet them after reassembling the case.  Gonna keep trying to hold the brushes open as I close the case.  Maybe 20% chance(?)  I'll let you know the outcome.  Keep those cards and letters coming in.

- Lonnie 

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 Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2020 10:28 am
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Lane Shirey
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Just use a dental tool to hold each brush retracted into their holders while you push the rotor to its original position. You may need a helper to keep them retracted.  

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 Posted: Sat Feb 1st, 2020 09:16 pm
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Lonnie Cook
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Well that didn't take long … over four hours.

David and Lane - you were both right.  After repeated failures,  I finally got up enough nerve to fully separate the case and remove the armature from the field.  I left the armature shaft in the end of the case that has the brush holders and brushes.  I didn't unsolder or replace any wires.

I made two brass ramps about 3/16" wide and a couple of inches long.  I withdrew the brushes into the holders with a dental pick and sat the ramp under them so that it bridged the shaft and the armature.  I elevated the front of the ramps to keep the brushes above the armature and slid it fully into that end of the case.

Then I moved the other half of the case over the back end of the armature, after stacking about a hundred washers and wavey washers on the shaft.  Inserted the screws into the case.  No smoke.  No sparks.  No fire.  Done.

You really have a good forum.  I am a gearhead outsider that burst into your space to ask a newbie question.  Thank you for your help.

Lonnie Cook
MG TF7211
Orlando, FL
"OLD STUFF … houses, furniture, cars, wine … I love it all"

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 Posted: Sun Feb 2nd, 2020 12:18 am
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David Allen
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Lonnie Cook wrote: Well that didn't take long … over four hours.

David and Lane - you were both right.  After repeated failures,  I finally got up enough nerve to fully separate the case and remove the armature from the field.  I left the armature shaft in the end of the case that has the brush holders and brushes.  I didn't unsolder or replace any wires.

I made two brass ramps about 3/16" wide and a couple of inches long.  I withdrew the brushes into the holders with a dental pick and sat the ramp under them so that it bridged the shaft and the armature.  I elevated the front of the ramps to keep the brushes above the armature and slid it fully into that end of the case.

Then I moved the other half of the case over the back end of the armature, after stacking about a hundred washers and wavey washers on the shaft.  Inserted the screws into the case.  No smoke.  No sparks.  No fire.  Done.

You really have a good forum.  I am a gearhead outsider that burst into your space to ask a newbie question.  Thank you for your help.

Lonnie Cook
MG TF7211
Orlando, FL
"OLD STUFF … houses, furniture, cars, wine … I love it all"


Hey glad you got it together! 

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 Posted: Thu Feb 6th, 2020 10:16 pm
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Lane Shirey
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:tumbs:tumbs

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