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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:01 pm
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Kim Frank
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From time to time this old question rears its' ugly head. Are all pancake cages after 1900 pierced at the rear ring? I'm a firm believer that they weren't, as I have several examples with cages that have a wrapped rear ring and a slotted cage badge, like the BMYs, in ten s-wire and eight. I also have an example with a slotted badge and a pierced rear ring, and vice versa. But the argument is that all cages thru 1908 had the pierced rear ring and pierced cage badge. To muddy the waters further, there is an exerpt in the new fan mag showing GE's for 1907 with the pierced rear ring. At Aiken, a super rare 1907 roundball motor DC 12" fan surfaced, s/n 289491, with pancake blades and a wrapped cage and slotted badge. An original advertising poster shows the same fans with wrapped cages. So?? were there two different styles of cages being made at the same time?    

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:04 pm
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Kim Frank
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here's a wrapped rear ring cage on an '03 cake......

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Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 02:05 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:07 pm
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Kim Frank
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Here's a pierced badge on an '08 stickmount...

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Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 02:10 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:13 pm
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Kim Frank
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a 1906 CGE with pierced rear ring cage....

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:15 pm
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Kim Frank
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1907 GE roundball DC with cake blade and wrapped cage...

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:16 pm
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Kim Frank
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again......compare to cage on the right....

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Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 02:17 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:17 pm
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Kim Frank
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View of the badge on the 1907 dc...

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:20 pm
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Kim Frank
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advertising poster.......1907....roundball DC....wrapped rear ring cage....

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:23 pm
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Kim Frank
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Inquiring minds want to know...... 

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Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 02:44 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 02:48 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 Question (2) for a question.... what does the keeper look like under the 10 wire slotted badge with the wrapped rear ring cage , and can you say rubber baby buggy bumper quickly 5 times without cracking a grin ???            happy fan collector

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 03:13 pm
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Kim Frank
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Ahhhhh.....rubba baby bumper buggies......oh well..... the keeper on the ten wire wrapped cages, both smaller rear wire and then the larger, is the same on all that I've seen. Open ring with clip on the badge itself. Can't say that I've seen the other style keeper on a ten wire wrapped cage, with the solid center and a threaded stud on the badge.

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Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 03:17 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 03:19 pm
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Kim Frank
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Here's the other ten wire type keeper, this one is a 16" and uses the 2 3/4 inch badge

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 03:21 pm
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Kim Frank
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Badge differences.....

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 03:32 pm
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Fred Berry
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My '01, '02, and '03 cakes have pierced cages.

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Rears.JPG

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 04:41 pm
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Kim Frank
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And speaking of this 1907 GE roundball DC, where is it in the GE survey? It certainly falls within the serial numbers of the pancakes that year, but it definitely is a totally different fan. Is it so rare that it falls in the same category as the fishtail base GE? As far as the cages, I have or have seen the 1899 - 1900 cakes with wrapped rear rings. 1901 I have seen with both style cages. 1902 cakes I've only seen pierced cages on them. Then in 1903 I have seen the 10 wire pierced cage, eight wire pierced, and eight wire wrapped. After that, I've seen all forms of eight wire cages on the cakes thru 1908.

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 04:53 pm
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Steve Cunningham
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Here's what I have in my GE Catalogs;

1900  Wrapped

1901 Wrapped

1902 Both

1905 Poked

1908 Both

 

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 04:53 pm
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Erich Martin
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dupe..

Last edited on Wed May 5th, 2010 04:55 pm by Erich Martin

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 04:54 pm
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Erich Martin
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The 10 wires are pretty much a tell-all if the rear ring has no sign of being repaired/filled and the wrap around wires are of the proper length as opposed to being short. I am sure there is a pur-tuna'd cage out there to show this...

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 08:25 pm
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John Fetner
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Here is my 1901

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 10:52 pm
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Jerry Henry
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OH MY, THERE YOU GO AGAIN KIMBO TRYING TO TRAVEL IN HIGH TECH WHEN YOU KNOW DARN WELL THAT THE GE'S, ESKIMO'S, ZERO'S & KWIK COOLS ALL HAVE COMMON  INTERCHANGEABLE PARTS. FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE GET A FAN, GET AN EMERSON AND QUIT MESSING WITH THE BOTTOM FEEDERS.

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 Posted: Wed May 5th, 2010 11:46 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Hey Jerry, I know that Emersons are supposed to be better but I have to say that I prefer running pancakes to the same era Emersons.  They seem to run smoother and have more charm.  That's good enough for me and I do like Emersons.  I think I will have to take out an Emerson or two to try out as a daily runner.  That's the way one finds out what is best for his use.

Pancake cages as I have noticed.
1899-1900  wrapped 
1901-1907  pinned   
1908          no ownership experience, and they are rare. 
10 wire cages through 1900;  wrapped, badge held on with soldered clip
10 wire cages after 1900 through c.mid-1903; pinned, badge held on with stud and nut
8 wire cages after c.mid-1903; pinned, badges held on with S-wired soldered into holes

There could very well be some variations, especially at the time of a change from one style to the next.  Also, a significant number of cages and other parts may have been changed in past times after damage or making two bad fans into one good one, etc.

Catalog illustrations can not always be believed as older photos and illustrations were sometimes used in later catalogs.

Serial numbers are not a definitive answer as to when a fan was made or what model year it is.  Serial no. 181508 fits well into the first half of 1904 pancake serial numbers yet the fan is a 1900 model, Type UI  Form F9 which are both correct for only 1900 models.  Furthermore, this 12" stick mount brass tag has a June 25, 1901 patent date as the last patent date.  In ALL respects other than the serial number and patent date it's a very original, unrestored, never polished 1900 model yet the serial number and that patent date place it later than June 1901.  Cage is wrapped.  I have no clue as to why that fan appears to have been made 4 years after its model year.  For all we know it may have been languishing in GE's storeroom, unsold and unwanted, until 1904 and the motor tag was affixed at that time.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:04 am
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Kim Frank
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Jerry Henry wrote:  FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE GET A FAN, GET AN EMERSON AND QUIT MESSING WITH THE BOTTOM FEEDERS.
Jerry, I owned an Emerson a couple of months ago. All I wanted to do after getting it was watch the Hall Mark channel and cry. Luckily I was able to pay Ron Jeter to take it off my hands in Aiken. Since being Emerson-free, my complexion has cleared up, got my taste back for Vodka and beer instead of wine coolers, lost my desire to get a toy poodle, only watch the History Channel, haven't baked a cookie since it's departure, and don't worry about the wasted space that thing was taking up..Like 'ol Tom always said...."If it ain't GE, then it ain't :censored... So Man up Jerry, quit your sniveling ways, and get a real fan....GE! Like my good friend Jon Brown always says....GE rules and Emerson drools......

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:10 am
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Kim Frank
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Steve Stephens wrote:
Serial numbers are not a definitive answer as to when a fan was made or what model year it is.  Serial no. 181508 fits well into the first half of 1904 pancake serial numbers yet the fan is a 1900 model, Type UI  Form F9 which are both correct for only 1900 models. 
Steve, can you post some pics of this fan, especially the info band around the motor?

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:33 am
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Ron Jeter
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This Emerson will be put on ebay tonight(One Frank paid me to take) - I have cleaned inside and out on this one - replaced the headwire - power cord - rubber feet - hub/rotor leather seal was replaced - put the correct brass wing nuts on the fan -- oiled it -- and it runs good!

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Last edited on Thu May 6th, 2010 12:34 am by Ron Jeter

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:52 am
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Steve Stephens
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Here you go Kim.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:53 am
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Steve Stephens
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1900 model GE made in 1904 according to serial number.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:53 am
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Kim Frank
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Thanks Ron, now I'm having flashbacks......

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:54 am
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Steve Stephens
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Motor tag on above fan

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:54 am
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Steve Stephens
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.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:55 am
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Steve Stephens
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.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 12:56 am
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Steve Stephens
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Note June 25, 1901 patent date on a 1900 model fan.  Type and Form match those for 1900 and no other year.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 01:01 am
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Jerry Henry
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Stev S, this is my first response to one of you 50,000 post, but I wish to thank you for being, as your good friend Jeter describes you "a fair & balanced fan friend corsortis". So, you have now proven that to me by preparing to test the Built to Last beauties as a day runner.  Unlike Franko, I run other than Emersons such as the two pedestal trailing tip air movers and two early star loop handle bells out in my Fanatorium. They all run hot which I notice is common with GEs, but that part is fine and that's not why I prefer GE in my building. I live in the country where it is extremely quiet and I need some type of rattling noise in the shop to remind me of living in California. Thanks for being a true trooper and placing those Emmys to work for your comfort. Plus, I know a dude over in Florida that will pay you twice market price for your unrestored Very General Electric Fans.

WARNING: Kim might have stired up a hornet's nest by addressing the Emerson Sleeping Giant "JON BROWN"

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 01:33 am
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Ron Jeter
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I think that Kim and Steve have proven to me that GE, like other manufacturers did what-ever to get a fan sold or on the way to a broker/wholesaler. Unless you were born in 1880 how would you know for sure!  Alot of manufacturers had repair shops and vendors to do their repairs for them with parts supplied by the manufacturer  -- if you broke your guard in 1903 on your 1899/1900 fan I doubt if you could get the correct guard -- back then they were just fans - the guard you ordered and they sent was probably that years guard or what was in stock!  What I am trying to say is that nothing is BLACK and WHITE!

Last edited on Thu May 6th, 2010 01:34 am by Ron Jeter

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 01:38 am
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Steve Stephens
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Ron Jeter wrote:  What I am trying to say is that nothing is BLACK and WHITE!I agree Ron, and realize that this fan below never existed.

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 02:11 am
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Adam Rohn
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Nice cake, Kim! I love how the color goes with brass

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 Posted: Thu May 6th, 2010 02:31 am
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Kim Frank
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Thanks for posting those pics Steve. That is a mystery.

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 Posted: Fri May 7th, 2010 04:51 am
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Chuck Abernathy
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Kim, I have a 1901 DC (SN 95733) with pinned cage and studded badge. I know this does not speak to your wrapped cages after 1907, but thought it might help the overall discussion.

 

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 Posted: Fri May 7th, 2010 04:52 am
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Chuck Abernathy
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The tag

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 Posted: Fri May 7th, 2010 06:29 am
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Bill Shrive
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Kim is that your dog??? My dog looks just like that with the ears down until she goes in the kitchen Then she gets in Inquiring mode and ears go straight up I nickname her jackass when her ears are straight up !!!

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 Posted: Fri May 7th, 2010 02:42 pm
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Kim Frank
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Thanks for the pics of that rare DC Chuck. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the only consistencies I have seen with GE pancake fan cages is for 1899 and 1900, which are wrapped. After that, I see variations throughout the production years into 1908, as far as wrapped vs. pierced rear ring, and pierced vs. slotted cage badge.

Steve's 1900 stick mount motor info band just raises a lot of questions . My 1903 full ribbed base stick has a brass motor band with info stamped into it, consistent for '03. My half ribbed  base stick has the same brass band, with info consistent for '03. I bought it thinking it was a 1904 but the Form C and s/n place it in late 1903. The 1905 stickmount I have uses a steel band with the motor tag riveted to it, as does the 1908 stick I have. 1904 is the first year that used the small motor tag and form D. Steve's fan's motor tag has the wrong serial number and a later patent date. I hear arguments that serial numbers can't be used to place the date on a GE fan, but I have to say it is a standard that I use and it's pretty much dead on. Common sense says that the serial number doesn't correspond to Steve's 1900 fan, nor does the s/n correspond to the type and form number. You can't argue that the band is on the wrong fan because the type and form nos. line up for the fan. That 1904 s/n I would think would be on a motor tag and not a band, so you might argue a mis-stamping. But then there's the pat'n date of 1901. Who knows??

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