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Simple rewire gone wrong  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed May 10th, 2017 03:55 pm
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Jason Sucher
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I just got to work on this one,it ran great before I switched out the wiring for new wire. What am I doing wrong? It's a Emerson 77648-ak . It ran awesome in all speeds.

Last edited on Wed May 10th, 2017 04:18 pm by Jason Sucher

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 Posted: Wed May 10th, 2017 04:30 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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This should help.



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 Posted: Wed May 10th, 2017 11:27 pm
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Jason Sucher
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Can you tell me the wire colors for A,B,C I have blue red and green, also does anyone know how many shims behind and front of rotor thx again

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 Posted: Thu May 11th, 2017 12:31 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Sorry, IDK and can't even say color codes are the same across time periods.

If you are going to work on anything electrical, including fans, you need to buy a meter.


Good ones are not expensive.


If you just want to get this one back to working, there are only a limited number of ways to connect the wires.


You won't hurt the fan for a short time (seconds, not minutes) with wrong wiring.  Try some other combos till you get it to run correctly.


There is a combo where the fan will spin in reverse.  You don't want that with Emersons as you can unscrew the blade.  Just pay attention to which way the wind blows.


Good luck.

Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2017 12:38 am by Tom Dreesen

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 Posted: Thu May 11th, 2017 06:37 pm
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Jason Sucher
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Thanks for the information, I have a meter. I also noticed that the rotor came from a 73648-ak not the correct one. I believe I'm have the strator and rotor out of wack

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 Posted: Thu May 11th, 2017 10:11 pm
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Lucas Beshara
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Pretty sure my 79648 Ak had that same rotor stamping. That's not your problem. 

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 Posted: Thu May 11th, 2017 10:23 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Lucas Beshara wrote: Pretty sure my 79648 Ak had that same rotor stamping. That's not your problem. 

That's what I thought also but only had memory of other threads that said this.


As to fiber shims, you want the rotor centered in the stator with a little play, 1/8 to 1/16th if memory serves again.

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 03:58 pm
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Jason Sucher
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Thanks for all the feed back, I believe I'm on the right track it's running but doesn't seem like full speed.

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 Posted: Sun May 14th, 2017 03:20 am
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Jason Sucher
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i wanted to say thanks again for the wiring diagram. I now have it wired correctly. But i still have to turn it to get it started it seems as if its dragging on something. I did remove the stator to rewire and i was wondering if there is an adjustment or something. Also there is a dot on the stator and I wondered if it had a location. This thing has been rewired before so i cant be sure anything is right..  Thanks Again, Jason

Last edited on Sun May 14th, 2017 03:28 am by Jason Sucher

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 Posted: Sun May 14th, 2017 11:29 am
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Tom Dreesen
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What is your spin down time?

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 Posted: Sun May 14th, 2017 01:50 pm
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David Allen
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Jason Sucher wrote: i wanted to say thanks again for the wiring diagram. I now have it wired correctly. But i still have to turn it to get it started it seems as if its dragging on something. I did remove the stator to rewire and i was wondering if there is an adjustment or something. Also there is a dot on the stator and I wondered if it had a location. This thing has been rewired before so i cant be sure anything is right..  Thanks Again, Jason


Could you make a short video showing a startup (with manual assist) as well as the spin-down?

If it feels like something is rubbing; there is definitely a problem. Stator / rotor binding often won't show up with the motor powered off because there isn't magnetism there to draw the parts together.

If the stator is held into the motor housing with screws, something might have gotten trapped when it went back together.  There might be a paint chip, piece of old wire insulation, metal burr, or some other particle caught between the stator and the motor housing. This would tilt the stator or possibly push it to the side; causing a binding.

Be sure the rotor and the inside of the stator are perfectly clean of all grease, paint, and sticky residue. Anything that will build up and fill in the air gap there is a Bad Thing.

You can look for rub marks on the rotor, or paint the rotor with layout dye (or a Sharpie marker) This will help you locate the rub area. If it's rubbing at all, it will seriously harm the motor given enough time. You have the mechanical overloading, as well as the friction heat is going directly into the stator where the motor is most sensitive to overheating.

Sincerely,
David

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 Posted: Sun May 14th, 2017 02:12 pm
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Lawrence Smith
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if you have to push start it-- it is not correct or something has happened with your cleaning. (since the fan worked prior to disassembly) Lawrence

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 Posted: Sun May 14th, 2017 08:19 pm
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Jason Sucher
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Thx for all the quick feedback​, I will make short video of it starting and post it soon
 I took pictures before I took it apart as I was going and they're all blurry so no help to me there I have lense clean now so video should be ok

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 04:52 am
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Jason Sucher
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Here's the video of it

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 06:01 am
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Matthew Albach
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Looks like your cap is not working to start this motor up. I have a similar
Emerson fan that it has a bad cap try spinning it another direction
If it starts up in ccw vs CW then you know you have a bad cap needs to be
replaced. Also hook up your motor to kill watt and see how much the motor is pulling as well .

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 10:21 am
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Lane Shirey
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It is possible it's miswired but it is definitely possible that the cap is bad- find someone that has a multimeter that can check capacitance and check out the cap. If the fan worked before taking it apart, my guess is that the cap is ok unless you dropped it or something.  If the cap checks ok, then it's got to be something else. 


To me, the rotor stopped somewhat abruptly after you turned it off. When you spin it by hand, there should be very little resistance. Is it possible it's not oiled enough to allow the rotor to break free? There's not a lot of torque in these motors. 

My bet though is on the wiring. When you soldered on the new headwire, did you clean the wires well before soldering them? If you soldered to the stator winding wires directly, did you clean the varnish coating off the wires? 

I'd detach the headwires at the switch and take ohm readings between each pair and then from each headwire to the motor/stator chassis. This will confirm a few things. I know it's a pain since you just connected them, but rather than guessing, it'll be quicker to eliminate some possibilities by testing. 

Last edited on Mon May 15th, 2017 10:21 am by Lane Shirey

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 10:26 am
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David Allen
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Hi Jason. The video is very helpful. It sounds like the rotor is not rubbing - or if it is, the rub is not enough to lock the rotor.

This leaves electrical causes of the failure to start.

The only path forward now is simple testing with the meter.

Thanks to Tom Dreesen's diagram, it will be fairly straightforward.

Eliminate possible causes one-by-one.

Measure the capacitor with meter. See that the capacitance is close to the requirement. If the capacitor is working, next move on to the capacitor winding. Ensure all three wires from the motor have some continuity between them. Per the diagram, the motor should have 31 and 145 ohms for the main and capacitor winding. If the A and B were reversed, the main winding would still see correct voltage, but the capacitor winding would not. This is a possibility.

Your motor looks good - nice and clean!

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 10:29 am
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David Allen
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Lane Shirey wrote: It is possible it's miswired but it is definitely possible that the cap is bad- find someone that has a multimeter that can check capacitance and check out the cap. If the fan worked before taking it apart, my guess is that the cap is ok unless you dropped it or something.  If the cap checks ok, then it's got to be something else. 





To me, the rotor stopped somewhat abruptly after you turned it off. When you spin it by hand, there should be very little resistance. Is it possible it's not oiled enough to allow the rotor to break free? There's not a lot of torque in these motors. 



My bet though is on the wiring. When you soldered on the new headwire, did you clean the wires well before soldering them? If you soldered to the stator winding wires directly, did you clean the varnish coating off the wires? 



I'd detach the headwires at the switch and take ohm readings between each pair and then from each headwire to the motor/stator chassis. This will confirm a few things. I know it's a pain since you just connected them, but rather than guessing, it'll be quicker to eliminate some possibilities by testing. 


Your post appeared same time mine did LOL.

I don't want to sound like I'm saying "you did a bad wiring job" because it's so easy to make small mistakes.

As we've both said, he's got to get a meter in order to successfully troubleshoot this.

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 11:39 am
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John McComas
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Not starting on its own, sounds like it could be a broken/intermittent  headwire, or an open capacitor...
Happy Fanning!

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 Posted: Mon May 15th, 2017 10:56 pm
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Lane Shirey
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That's funny that we both posted the same thoughts at the same time. Lol. 😆😂

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 Posted: Tue May 16th, 2017 11:48 am
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John McComas
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Lane Shirey wrote: That's funny that we both posted the same thoughts at the same time. Lol. 😆😂Something about "great minds"  ??  :-)
 
I've seen a lot of these with broken/intermittent headwire inside the overall sheath where the headwire enters the bullet back cover...(seems to be a point of maximum flexing of the wires)    

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 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 05:32 am
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Jason Sucher
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Thanks all for the assistance, I started from square one and rewired and now she's purring like a kitten

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 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 09:54 am
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Lane Shirey
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Glad you got it going!

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