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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 12:41 am
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Matt Hazel
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I would've sworn I posted this a while ago, but I don't see it, so maybe I messed it up.

Anyway, we picked up a Western Auto Wizard Husky a while back and I'm trying to get it running.  I've got a couple of questions, if anyone has ever been inside one and can help.

1. This little brass oil funnel looks like it was bent out of the way to access the screw.  It's supposed to be bent with the bottom of the "V" facing straight out and the end being right at the little oil hole, correct?  It sure seems like I can see a clean spot where it was covering the metal, before someone messed with it.

2.  Are there supposed to be spacer washers on the front shaft, between the front of the rotor and the front cover?  The shaft had a bunch of "stuff" on it, but I couldn't tell if it was just oil and dust, or the remnants of an old fiber washer.  As it is now, I can move the rotor in and out about 1/2 of an inch, which doesn't seem right.

Thanks.




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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 12:52 am
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Lane Shirey
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Answer to #1 is yes, it needs bent back to the original position. 
#2- hard to tell without pics. 

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 12:59 am
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Matt Hazel
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Lane Shirey wrote: Answer to #1 is yes, it needs bent back to the original position. 
#2- hard to tell without pics. 
I don't really know what to take a pic of.  There was some brown goop on the rotor shaft, which I cleaned off.  I ran the motor with no blades and marked where it wants to ride.  From that point, I can pull the rotor towards the front of the fan another 1/2" or so.  Normally I would shim it between the rotor and the fan case so that it can't do that, but I don't know if these little cheapie fans were that precise or not.

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 01:11 am
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Matt Hazel
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Here's the only thing I could take a pic of.

The line on the right side is where the shaft comes out of the front cover when the motor is running with no blades.
The line on the left is how far I can pull the rotor forward.  There's nothing stopping the rotor from sliding out that far, which makes me think that at one time it had a thick shim washer.


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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 02:38 pm
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Tom Zapf
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a picture of the entire fan, blade cage etc tells us who made this fan for western-auto. by that little funnel it appears this is a Bersted made fan, which i have seen. the fan did run,yes? they pretty much run forever, but Bersted fans had really tiny shafts so they RPMs against the bushing tends to be high. constant oil is necessary. If you have too much front to back play you can add spacer washers to limit that. A lot of bersted fans had a little spring that was used as s space and went over the shaft. It was from what was called "Dimestore" fans. Consumer reports around 1952 noted that Bersted made fans required oiling WEEKLY!

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 03:01 pm
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Matt Hazel
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Tom Zapf wrote: a picture of the entire fan, blade cage etc tells us who made this fan for western-auto. by that little funnel it appears this is a Bersted made fan, which i have seen. the fan did run,yes? they pretty much run forever, but Bersted fans had really tiny shafts so they RPMs against the bushing tends to be high. constant oil is necessary. If you have too much front to back play you can add spacer washers to limit that. A lot of bersted fans had a little spring that was used as s space and went over the shaft. It was from what was called "Dimestore" fans. Consumer reports around 1952 noted that Bersted made fans required oiling WEEKLY!Ah, gotcha!  I was trying to figure out how I was supposed to take a pic of the "play" in the rotor, when it's inside the case.  I'll have to put it back together and snap some pics. 

Thanks for the info.  It does have the little spring in the back, which seems to take up the backwards play, but nothing in front of the rotor. I think it had a thick fiber spacer at one time, it just fell apart.  The fan did run when I got it, but very slowly.  The rotor shaft had some surface rust on it and the bearings were dry.  It spins much more easily now, and I'm pretty confident that once I get the rotor slop fixed, it will work.  I doubt that it'll see much daily use, but I'll have to keep in mind to oil it frequently. 

Thanks a ton for the info! 

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 03:06 pm
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Tom Zapf
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you do not have to put it back together just photo the blade and cage and we will be able to tell. The oil funnel on the back also is attached by the screw holding the motor together so you shouldnt have to bend it, just make sure the bottom is in the right place when you tighten. Sometimes the removal of the cage for cleaning will cause that screw to turn a bit and move the bottom of the little funnel

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 Posted: Wed May 17th, 2017 10:49 pm
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Matt Hazel
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I just now got around to messing with it again, sorry.  Here is a pic of the side of the fan, the front, the blade and the cage.  I'm still not sure about how to properly shim the front of the rotor against the case.  It seems like I'd need almost 1/2" of shims, and by surfing around this site, it seems like most fans use 2 or 3 1/32" thick washers.  I'd have to use 16 of them, which seems excessive.  Did these fans use some sort of sleeve instead of washers?  Thanks for the info!








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 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 01:42 am
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Lane Shirey
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Some of these had a cardboard or fiber spacer that took up the space you mention, but fiber washers would work. Just make sure whatever you use can handle the heat of those motors.  I'd say that this is a good fan to practice on, but given its rough condition, just be aware that a perfect condition fan like that can be had for $20-40 at a local fan meet. So I guess what I'm saying is be careful how much effort and expense you put into that fan that is not intended for longevity or constant use. 
But, as I said, it's a great fan to practice restoration skills on. . 

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 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 01:47 pm
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Matt Hazel
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Thanks Lane!  I bet you're right, it was probably a cardboard spacer and the age and humidity turn it to goop.  I'm going to see if I can find a nylon spacer that will work.  We bought it because it was cheap and my wife liked the "patina" and wanted to just use it as a decoration.  I'm not a decoration type person, I like to take things apart, so I decided to see if I can make it work.  It won't even get painted, because apparently old rusty stuff is in style right now. I'm having fun learning the basics of restoration on it, and even if I fail miserably, it'll still be good for sitting on a shelf, which is why we bought it anyway. 

Thanks for the info! 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 07:44 pm
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Matt Hazel
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So, I'm back working on this, trying to get it right. I've got the blades balanced pretty well, and they don't seem to be bent, but I'm having a problem. When I run the fan without the blades, it runs great and quiet. When I put the blades on, the force of the blade pushing air pushes the shaft inside the housing farther, where it loads the spring, gets pushed back forward, and it repeats. This causes a vibration noise. Is there any way to stop this, or is it just the nature of the beast with these cheap fans? I'm wondering if I could remove the spring and put a shim in it's place, but didn't know if "pinching" it in place like that would cause an overheating problem.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 07:50 pm
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David Allen
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Tom Zapf wrote: a.... Consumer reports around 1952 noted that Bersted made fans required oiling WEEKLY!
The problem is, instead of oiling them weekly, most people oiled them weakly.... and the bearings went out.  :cool:

Matt Hazel wrote: ......As it is now, I can move the rotor in and out about 1/2 of an inch, which doesn't seem right.
You would be correct - the shaft should not move that far fore and aft. The rotor should be centered in the stator (approximately) with some freeplay; a few thousandths. Too much end float allows bad things to happen. The fan blade will create some thrust loading, which will push the rotor backwards. This will work against the magnetism of the motor, and the result will be a rattle or grinding.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 10:44 pm
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Matt Hazel
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David Allen wrote: Too much end float allows bad things to happen. The fan blade will create some thrust loading, which will push the rotor backwards. This will work against the magnetism of the motor, and the result will be a rattle or grinding.


So, do you think it would be acceptable to replace the spring with a shim, to get rid of the play and some of the noise by stopping it from being pushed backwards?  In all honesty, I see this thing getting used a few hours a month, at most.  Right now it's annoyingly loud, so you don't really want to use it.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 10:56 pm
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David Allen
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Matt Hazel wrote: David Allen wrote: Too much end float allows bad things to happen. The fan blade will create some thrust loading, which will push the rotor backwards. This will work against the magnetism of the motor, and the result will be a rattle or grinding.


So, do you think it would be acceptable to replace the spring with a shim, to get rid of the play and some of the noise by stopping it from being pushed backwards?  In all honesty, I see this thing getting used a few hours a month, at most.  Right now it's annoyingly loud, so you don't really want to use it.

Matt; in my opinion; the motor will last longest and work best if shimmed with a "firm" spacer of some sort, with a two or three fiber washers at the end, so that the fiber washers (they hold oil really well) will be against the bearing. 

I would do it this way.....

Set the rear bearing on the back of the stator. Put shims and fiber washers on the rear shaft of the rotor until it sits centered in the stator. In other words, equal amount of the rotor protruding from the front and back of the stator.

Then, put the front bearing on, and feel how much end play you have in the shaft. Take the front bearing back off, and then add shims and fiber washers to the front rotor shaft. Try to get the "minimum" end-clearance you can based on the shims and fiber washers you have. It has to have some clearance (not binding) but you want just a few thou.

Check the clearance with the motor bolts tight. 

The important points are..
1 - Rotor centered in stator
2 - Fiber washers touch the bearings, not a metal shim or plastic shim. The shim needs to be against the rotor and the fiber against the bearing.
3 - It has as little clearance as possible without being in a bind.

I've been getting nylon bushings and fiber washers, from Lowe's. The bushings I hae been turning down by placing them in my lathe; so as to create custom lengths. You could probably find a way to shorten them without a lathe. 

I hope this helps! I'm not an expert on your exact model of fan, but I have worked on many small motors and used this method. :) 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 11:06 pm
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Matt Hazel
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Thank you! I'll give it a shot. I haven't found fiber washers at Lowes, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I'll swing by there in the next day or so and see if I can find some. It would be nice to be able to get them locally. Thanks again!

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 Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2017 11:07 pm
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David Allen
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Matt Hazel wrote: Thank you! I'll give it a shot. I haven't found fiber washers at Lowes, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I'll swing by there in the next day or so and see if I can find some. It would be nice to be able to get them locally. Thanks again!
If I remember, they were in the drawer bins in the hardware area with the other "hard to find parts".

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 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 12:52 am
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Matt Hazel
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I'll look again. Thanks.

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