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Fidelity Oscillator Gears  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 01:33 pm
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Henry Carrera
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I need to make a worm and worm wheel for my 12". If anyone needs these gears it would be much more cost effective to make extras while the machines are setup. This project is not a high priority and I need to purchase some more tooling so it may be a while. I'll come up with a price and double check with anyone that shows interest to see if you still need them when I get set up.

The original worm wheel is steel but I would most likely make mine from bronze. I could experiment with steel if there is interest in originality.

My worm is missing and I would really appreciate it if someone could lend me one for a short period so I can confirm my calculations for a proper fit and make sure it looks exactly like the original.

Thanks!

 

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 02:22 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Morning Henry,

Which Fidelity are you thinking of making gears for?  My specific need is for the 12" Fidelity open gear oscillator, which has that weird worm gear with the groove to hold oil to lubricate the worm.  If that's the gear you're talking about, I'm in for one.


Jim 

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 03:42 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Jim Humphrey wrote: Morning Henry,

Which Fidelity are you thinking of making gears for?  My specific need is for the 12" Fidelity open gear oscillator, which has that weird worm gear with the groove to hold oil to lubricate the worm.  If that's the gear you're talking about, I'm in for one.


Jim 

That's the one Jim. I didn't know there were other 12" models.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 04:13 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Henry, I was thinking that Fidelity had made a later and more advanced oscillator fan, but I just did a search on the forum and didn't find anything.  I know the 12" and 16" open gears are different, but there probably was only the one oscillator.  I've got a worm screw that a local machine shop made for me, and it works with the worn out wheel I've got (except in the ~20 degree arc where the teeth are worn down).  But it doesn't look original.  However, if the worm screw or wheel I've got would be of any help to you I can send them.  And bronze or steel doesn't matter to me.  In any case, I'd be in for the set, a worm and the worm wheel Thanks for taking this on Henry!  
Jim

Last edited on Sun Oct 1st, 2017 04:20 pm by Jim Humphrey

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 10:40 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Thanks Jim, I will take your offer for the worm if I can't get my hands on an original.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 11:05 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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No problem Henry, and I don't know if Steve Stephens has seen this thread yet, but last I knew he was looking for a 12" gearset for an open gear he has.  I'm sure there are a number of them out there with bad gears because there is normally a tight spot in the linkage alignment which puts a lot of stress on the gears for part of the oscillation.  I say normally, but perhaps it depends on wear in the arms, not sure.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2017 11:29 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Jim Humphrey wrote:  I don't know if Steve Stephens has seen this thread yet, but last I knew he was looking for a 12" gearset for an open gear he has. 
I have seen it now.   Back in 2009 I was sent a worm gear from a machinist but it may have been for a 16" fan since the pitch was not correct.  I would be interested in a worm if just the worm can be made to mesh properly with the old bull? gear.  Steel would be my preference unless a bronze worm would wear as long or close to a steel gear.   My fan does not look like much and I didn't pay much but it runs very well.   I bought it when I was fairly new at collecting and passed on it for $65 because the casting quality was not up to what I like.  But the seller asked if I would take any of his other fans and I guess I said "if you give me a great deal" so for $25 I took it home.  Glad I did and then I learned that Fidelitys may look crude but they are very good fans.  

 Photos of my fan and gears:












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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 12:28 am
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Henry Carrera
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Hi Steve, from the pics your worm wheel does look in good shape. I would be much more comfortable saying just a worm will work If I can find an original to compare against. The worm will be steel, it's the larger gear that will most likely be bronze. I'm not certain why Fidelity chose steel because a bronze wheel is and was the most common and best choice.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 12:39 am
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Henry Carrera
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I just thought of another way Steve. If you send me your new looking worm wheel when I get started, I'm sure I could provide a working worm. I can test out the fit on my fan because the center distance should hopefully be the same on all 12" fans.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 03:57 am
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Steve Stephens
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Henry, the worm in my photos is one that Mike Petree I think it was made for me but it turned out to be the wrong size (by far).   I sent it back to him.  My fan is missing the worm gear, sorry.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 09:17 am
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Henry Carrera
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No problem Steve, I understood everything that is important. It doesn't matter where the wrong gear came from. The worm is the small gear on the motor shaft and the worm wheel is the large driven gear. If you send me your perfect worm wheel I can make just the worm for you and guarantee a fit.

Actually, with your wheel and Jim's worm my problem is solved and I don't need to make any gears at all.  :evil :imao

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 12:33 pm
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Tim Marks
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Im in for a pair. My fan’s set is good but worth having the parts.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 12:45 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Henry, when you see the worm screw I have you'd probably want to make another one for yourself!  It's pretty rough and not much like the originals I've seen in pics on the website here.  But it does work and would be fine if I had a good worm wheel.  Just let me know if you want me to send it to you.  Jim

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 03:24 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Henry Carrera wrote:  This project is not a high priority and I need to purchase some more tooling so it may be a while. 

I can send my worm wheel Henry when you get closer.  I would hope a good and original worm could be located to use to copy since Jim says his is rough and not original it sounds like.  Maybe a worm and worm wheel, made as a set, would be needed so they will mesh correctly?  That had been mentioned to me a few years back.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 08:56 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Steve Stephens wrote: Henry Carrera wrote:  This project is not a high priority and I need to purchase some more tooling so it may be a while. 

I can send my worm wheel Henry when you get closer.  I would hope a good and original worm could be located to use to copy since Jim says his is rough and not original it sounds like.  Maybe a worm and worm wheel, made as a set, would be needed so they will mesh correctly?  That had been mentioned to me a few years back.

Yes, very grateful to have a good condition wheel to compare measurements. I would think the gearing should be a standard 16 pitch but the math is not adding up using my wheel.


Last edited on Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 09:06 pm by Henry Carrera

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 10:21 pm
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Chad Hunter
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I think that the 16 is by using a thread gage and not a gear gauge. This photo has a 16 gear gauge and 16 thread gage which is way different. 

Attached Image (viewed 724 times):

IMG_1525.JPG

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 Posted: Mon Oct 2nd, 2017 10:22 pm
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Chad Hunter
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It is hard to tell since I don't have the gear in front of me but I think it will be a 48 Diametral at 20 degrees.

Attached Image (viewed 721 times):

IMG_1527.JPG

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 Posted: Tue Oct 3rd, 2017 12:32 am
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Steve Stephens
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Chad Hunter wrote: I think that the 16 is by using a thread gage and not a gear gauge. This photo has a 16 gear gauge and 16 thread gage which is way different. I did use a thread gauge in my photo and was not aware that there are gear gauges.   Thank you for the information.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 3rd, 2017 08:58 am
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Henry Carrera
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Chad Hunter wrote: It is hard to tell since I don't have the gear in front of me but I think it will be a 48 Diametral at 20 degrees.
You're right Chad, the gear is most likely 48 diametrical and it has 96 teeth. I was referencing pitch diameter to match Steve's thread gauge and not cause any confusion. At this point I'm just eyeballing my worn wheel with calipers. Maybe my gear is worn more than I think but if I make a 48 diametrical to spec it seems the gear may be a little too large. Between Steve's gear and a fan to test fit the new gears this will get sorted out.

I'm still hoping for an original worm to compare against as there will be unworn areas at the front and rear edges that don't contact the wheel.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 02:00 pm
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Henry Carrera
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I've accomplished a lot but there is much much more to go. All I wanted was to sell my Fidelity in working order. :hammer:





















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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 02:02 pm
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Henry Carrera
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The large gear turned out to be cast iron.




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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 03:29 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Henry, every time I get to the point of having to have a gear made, I discover just how little I know about gears and how they're designed and manufactured.  Like Steve, I didn't even know that gears are measured differently than screws.  But if you need my worn out gear or "works but looks bad" worm screw, just let me know.  It'd be great to actually get the fan working.  And if you don't need my gears, I'd be more than happy to offer you moral support!
Jim

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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 10:46 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Thank you Jim. I'll certainly let you know if I need your machinist made worm when I get ready to cut. I'm taking this setup to a higher level then needed but it will allow me to cut the large gear like it was originally done at the factory. The tricky part is to make an accurate worm identical to the one that goes on the motor shaft, then turn it into a cutter.

BTW, the dividing head is the "Hill Rotary" of heads and quite possibly the only surviving example so I'm taking care not to modify it in a way that can't be returned to original condition. As if anyone cares about an ultra rare dividing head. :sleeping:

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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 10:58 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Henry, I hate to expose any more of my ignorance, but what is a dividing head, what does it do do, and is it shown in your pics above?  You've got a lot of equipment that would take me years past my expiration date to really understand and make use of I'm afraid, but I'm still curious.  Thanks for what you're doing, in any case!  Jim

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 Posted: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 11:31 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Here is a YouTube video that explains it well. He only uses 7 divisions but I would have to repeat what he is doing 96 times to make this gear plus I would need the correct plate for 96 equal divisions which I don't have. The heck with all of that and I'm going to use electronics to do the calculations and turning for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRA6d0fPqgI

My dividing head is in the first picture but it's all taken apart. Here is how it looked when bought.




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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:48 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Thanks for that link Henry, I looked at it and then some of the others that came up with it, and I see how it works mathematically, but not sure I could keep it straight long enough to actually do anything useful myself even if I had the equipment.  And especially if I had to do the same operation 96 times.  That leaves a lot of room for error that a guy wouldn't know about until the last cut or two.  And then it'd be reach for the .45.  Thanks again.
Jim

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 06:32 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Exactly Jim. I'm removing the hole plate and will be able to index any number of divisions I need with the push of a button. For worm wheels, the worm screw (cutter) and dividing head will be continuously spinning, hopefully in sync with each other. That's the theory anyway.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2017 12:46 pm
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Ted Kaczor
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Last edited on Wed Jun 27th, 2018 09:58 am by Ted Kaczor

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 Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2017 06:25 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Will do Ted...

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 Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2018 11:32 am
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Henry Carrera
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I'm getting close to cutting gears and need some help please. Could anyone with a 12" Fidelity make a simple measurement of the worm installed on the motor shaft? The rear part of the worm that doesn't engage with the wheel should be factory fresh and I would like to know the outside diameter. This measurement can be made without removing the worm. I have 2 measurements from 2 different members but they are way off from each other.

I REALLY need to get my hands on an original worm for a short period of time so I can verify the lead and pressure angle.

I want to provide just the worm or wheel separately but my calculations are not matching up close enough at the moment to provide a fit guarantee.

Thanks,
Henry  

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 Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2018 06:56 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Send you a pm Henry

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 Posted: Mon Mar 26th, 2018 11:42 am
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Henry Carrera
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Still in need of the outside diameter of the motor shaft worm measured at a non-wearing spot. No disassembly required. I also need the worm length and set screw thread size. I will take ANY gear dimensions that you can provide as I want a sampling from a number of fans.

Thanks!

 

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 Posted: Mon Mar 26th, 2018 02:20 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Morning Henry,


If there's any use you can make of the worm screw I've got, the one that's pretty rough but works on my worm wheel except for the arc where the wheel teeth are worn off, I'll sure send it to you.  But it'd be a lot better to have an original Fidelity worm I know.  Hopefully someone will send you an original.  Just let me know if I can help in any way.


Jim

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 Posted: Mon Mar 26th, 2018 03:05 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Thanks for all of your help Jim but I need to stick with originals for these measurements.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2018 09:17 am
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Henry Carrera
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Hello all,
 
I'm getting close to offering these for sale and I need to include some information for anyone that is interested.
 
I'm selling in sets only and the price will be $258 which includes the small USPS priority box shipping to the lower 48. PayPal friends and family or a cleared check will work for payment.
 
Fidelity Electric wasn't exactly the poster child for standards and quality control so it wasn’t a cut and dry process coming up with some of the dimensions. I asked as many fan owners as I could find and came up with some averages mostly on the less important dimensions.

 
1) Shaft center distance of 1.222 between the motor worm and worm wheel. This is by far the most critical dimension. From my fan and two others, that measurement was exactly the same. One of the fans measured has a serial # around 70,000 higher than mine. Other than workmanship, I will guarantee these gears to fit the above center distance and it would be best if you could measure your fan before requesting a set. All gear sets will be checked for proper fit on my fan.
 
2) .278 motor shaft diameter which was averaged out. My fan was .279 but starting it up and taking some emery cloth to the shaft quickly took it down to size.
 
3) .374ish for the large wheel shaft and that was fairly consistent. The wheel will have a .375 hole.
 
4) .133 for the pin hole diameter that mounts the wheel to the oscillator shaft. There may be a problem here or it could just be an issue with my fan only. My hole is drilled so far off center that a proper center drilled hole in a new gear would not allow the pin to go through. My options are to align the off centered hole in the shaft in my mill or drill press vise and drill an off centered hole in the gear to match. Or, turn the shaft 90 degrees and drill a new centered hole in the shaft. No holes have been drilled yet and I’m still chewing on this issue. Maybe offer a centered hole or no hole if others have this situation? Looking for input if you think this will be a problem with your fan.
 
5) Oil hole. My original gear doesn’t have one and I probably won’t add it. I believe the fans started out with no oil hole and it was added later on. The oil hole and above mentioned pin hole will be the last steps in the process so if you don’t want an oil hole let me know ASAP. All of the wheels will eventually get an oil hole once I'm set up.


Thanks for your patience,
Henry














 

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 Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2018 12:03 pm
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Mike Petree
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Supa fine :dude:

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 Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2018 01:42 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Absolutely beautiful, Henry!  Knowing the trials and tribulations involved in getting the project to this point, it's a cause for celebration to see the basically final result, thanks.



Jim

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 Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2018 07:05 pm
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Henry Carrera
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Thanks Mike and Jim! :D

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 Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2018 07:39 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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And for anybody hanging fire on ordering a worm/wheel assembly, this is probably the ONLY way you're ever going to get your 12" Fidelity open gear oscillator working the way it's supposed to.  And what better way to get a little oil spattered on your antique doilies so you can appreciate how things were in the early part of the last century.  I've seen several open gear fans without gears on eBay in the last year, so now there's the option to bid on them for a good price and make them work.  You'd then have a fan that looks like it was designed on the back of a bar napkin and has castings smoothed with an ax, as I think Russ Huber described them.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2018 01:45 am
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Henry Carrera
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Adjusting the vertical position of the large wheel:

To get the longest life and prevent binding, the wheel needs to be centered with the worm. Once the motor worm is installed and the large gear is pinned to the oscillator shaft you will notice about 1/16" of vertical movement with hard stops. This is because the worm is slightly recessed into the wheel. Move the gear up and down a few times and guesstimate the center position. Without moving the vertical wheel position and making sure the bottom of the brass collar is seated against the iron frame, tighten the setscrew on the brass collar.

If you run your fan a lot keep an eye on that setscrew to make sure it hasn't come loose. If the gears are still in good condition it will be obvious because the motor will slow down and may not start on its own. If the gears are worn it will continue to wear unevenly as shown in the pic.

Happy fanning!!






















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