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10" Roto-Beam and 8" Menominee  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Thu Nov 9th, 2017 10:57 pm
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George Durbin
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https://youtu.be/YZHWjHp3hyc











Check out the serial number on the 3-tab menominee "853"



Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 12:35 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 12:41 am
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Lucas Beshara
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Man that's a good find!

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:31 am
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Dave McManaman
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Very nice!

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:25 am
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Russ Huber
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Well George, your 8" tab with slide switch and brass KNURLED CIRCULAR pivot set just pinned your fan down as a transitional from the top protruding slide switch.  The question is now....did Menominee continue to use the tab base top slide switch in 13??  Your fan would have to date 13 as the cone base was introduced in 14.  




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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:27 am
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Russ Huber
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Farr Telephone(Chicago) became a Menominee agent in .....12.  The top slide switch is still present in 12.

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Farr12.jpg

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:28 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:32 am
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Russ Huber
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13 must of been big time transitional for the 8" universal tab.

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76219_091931_350000000.jpg

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 05:10 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:44 am
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Russ Huber
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These two fans I would bet my life were both manufactured in 13.

Attached Image (viewed 451 times):

MenomineeRE3.jpg

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:45 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:48 am
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Russ Huber
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George,


Send me the Eck.  I have a guard and blade for it.  Do the right thing and give it a nice home. :D

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 09:55 am
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Rick Powell
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Way to go George, looks like you got your mojo back.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 01:09 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Nice finds George. The Menominee tabs are really nice looking fans. I'm not a big fan of the cone base, but I have a soft spot for the tab base.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 01:57 pm
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Russ Huber
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I did some research last night and came up with a sound timeline for Menominee fan motor transition 1910-13. I will share this on a separate post.

The image was shared by Chuck Abernathy.  The Munderloh & Co.(Canadian) 8" tab on the far right is identical in construction to George's recent find posted here.  The Munderloh & Co. and George's 8" tab example dates 1912-13 based on some solid dated electrical trade tips.


The vertical switch 8" tab example on the far left would date 1910-12.  1912 if the center guard ring is stamped with Menominee Electric.

Attached Image (viewed 382 times):

Menominee Staty Staghorn Munderloh Rt.JPG

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:00 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:08 pm
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote:

Nice finds George. The Menominee tabs are really nice looking fans. I'm not a big fan of the cone base, but I have a soft spot for the tab base.


Modest Mike's 8" tab dates 1910(introduction season)-12.

Attached Image (viewed 381 times):

Rathbergertab.png

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:09 pm
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George Durbin
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I find the stamping on the ring kinda crude but very cool!



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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:11 pm
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George Durbin
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The serial number on mine is 853... Faulty thinking makes me believe that back to 1910 there are only 852 others before??
Geo...

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:18 pm
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Russ Huber
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George Durbin wrote: The serial number on mine is 853... Faulty thinking makes me believe that back to 1910 there are only 852 others before??
Geo...

No serial stamping to the best of my knowledge on Menominee fan motors from 1910 introduction through 11.

Attached Image (viewed 370 times):

ronmenomt.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:22 pm
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Russ Huber
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It appears serial stamping for Menominee fans motors started in 12-13.  The base fiber slide switch was  introduced with no doubt in 12 with the introduction of the horizontal axis table fan and first introduction Induction fan motor. 


Attached Image (viewed 372 times):

Menominee12.jpg

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:23 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:45 pm
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George Durbin
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Russ Huber wrote: George,


Send me the Eck.  I have a guard and blade for it.  Do the right thing and give it a nice home. :D

I have the cage and blade and it runs very well! I will send blade off to Mr. Loos for some attention... I think these are like other early fans... Kinda  Neanderthal like and rough? Looking... I likem like that... The cage has more depth to accommodate the Ming blade...

Geo...

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 02:46 pm by George Durbin

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 03:14 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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George Durbin wrote: Russ Huber wrote: George,


Send me the Eck.  I have a guard and blade for it.  Do the right thing and give it a nice home. :D

I have the cage and blade and it runs very well! I will send blade off to Mr. Loos for some attention... I think these are like other early fans... Kinda  Neanderthal like and rough? Looking... I likem like that... The cage has more depth to accommodate the Ming blade...

Geo...


I marvel at the fact they produced that thing as late as 1920ish according to Russ's earlier research. The other manufacturers had moved on from early designs, but Eck just kept churning that model out -- with a blade modification or two. Remind me to send a pic of mine to you, there's a fine chain that goes around something or other on mine that I think to be original.


 


As for the Menominee's, I think the brush holders are the key to pre 1912 and post 1912 throughout the model line. I've seen the earlier and later styles on the round ball's as well.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 08:32 pm
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Russ Huber
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Electrical trade clearly validates Eck's first AC induction fan motor placed on the market in .....13.  Blue tag on the base.  Keep in mind effective 07 Wallace became CEO over the US Eck concern and forward.  As far as I know Eck was over at his plant in Sweden sitting at his desk using $100.00 bills to roll cigars.

Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 08:33 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 06:46 pm
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Russ Huber
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Utility tagged 8" with 10 introduction brush holders/vertical switch/ dual stator bolts and later issue cast struts.  

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Menominee - UTILITY motor tag.JPG

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 06:48 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 06:52 pm
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Russ Huber
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1912 manufacture Farr badged 8" with all 10 introduction features including .......stamped guard supports.


Electrical trade clearly states Farr became a Menominee agency in 12.

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Farrside.jpg

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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 06:59 pm
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Russ Huber
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I would be willing to bet the earliest  8" Menominee tab foots dating 10-11 had flat head screw driver brass threaded screw downs(no exposed knurling) to compress grease into the bearings.  


If I am correct, none have surfaced yet.


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Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 07:07 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 07:39 pm
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Russ Huber
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Roto Beam with Signal motor.

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76219_091932_390000000.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 07:40 pm
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Russ Huber
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Edgar T. Ward Prince with Signal motor.



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IMG_0161.JPG

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 07:41 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 07:53 pm
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George Durbin
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Doesn't say signal but here is the tag...
Geo...



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:42 pm
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Russ Huber
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Roto-Beam did not manufacture motors. Signal did. :D





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2.jpg

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:44 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:51 pm
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Russ Huber
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Early Roto Beam for most part sports the better built Century motors.  Remember, Max Weber liked his cocktails...hic!....So a tad down the road Max cut corners stuffing budget motors like the tin can Universal and Redmond beauties behind his patented jing making blade. :D


Max may not of lost Dorothy if he would of been detoxed. :wondering: :D 

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Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 12:07 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 12:12 am
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Russ Huber
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That model you have is one I dig.

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US2123448-1.png

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 12:13 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 12:31 am
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Levi Mevis
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George, from my understanding and seeing other similar roto-beams like yours on here else where, I think your switch on your roto-beam is correct to the fan. 
As for your Menominee, it actually takes grease in the bearings and not oil, which is something I found out when I was getting information about my Menominee fan. So a light bearing grease would work fine for your Menominee's Bearings to lube them up.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 01:37 am
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George Durbin
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Hi Levi!
The in-line switch is correct to the Roto Beam fan.
Oilers on the top are nearly always for grease... And back in the day Vaseline was quite often used as the lubricant... These oilers both have wicks that look like wool or simpler material... Who knows... 100 years ago to present times I suspect what ever was available was used to bleed lubricant to the bearing areas...
Geo...

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 01:40 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 01:40 am
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Levi Mevis
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Interesting, I've never thought of using Vaseline Jelly to lubricate my Menominee, because I've just been using Standard Cup Grease, which is a light bearing of some sort, its also what I've used to re-grease old turntables and oscillator mechanisms on fans.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 01:47 am
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George Durbin
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Levi Mevis wrote: Interesting, I've never thought of using Vaseline Jelly to lubricate my Menominee, because I've just been using Standard Cup Grease, which is a light bearing of some sort, its also what I've used to re-grease old turntables and oscillator mechanisms on fans.
The lubricants of today are generally superior to vaselines of yesteryear... And with some of the synthetics available, far superior! But... Are the exotic lubricants necessary if you keep any kind of maintenance on your fans?... After all... This fan has good bearings to this day... So it was little used, well maintained, or bearings could have been replaced... 

Geo...

Geo...

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 01:50 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 02:14 am
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Levi Mevis
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George, how long does it take for your Menominee to coast to a stop from high? I'm asking because my Menominee basically just grinds to a halt after 5 seconds from high, no coast down or anything, The bearings don't seem to be worn or anything but they do seem to be not centered right or something because the front bearing has an adjustment screw but I'm not sure if its set right or not or if the front bearing is centered correctly or not.
Any ideas George?

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 02:19 am
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Trevor Soundararajan
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In general, brush motor fans will have a tendency to stop rather quickly.  ESPECIALLY when you have a gear transmission involved.  You could unscrew your brush caps (fan unplugged of course) and give your blade a spin.  That will be your true indicator of bearing alignment/condition.  Bear in mind, you've also got a smaller brush type fan, meaning less momentum in proportion to the brush force on the commutator.

Hope this helps,


Mr. T

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 02:21 am
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George Durbin
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Levi Mevis wrote: George, how long does it take for your Menominee to coast to a stop from high? I'm asking because my Menominee basically just grinds to a halt after 5 seconds from high, no coast down or anything, The bearings don't seem to be worn or anything but they do seem to be not centered right or something because the front bearing has an adjustment screw but I'm not sure if its set right or not or if the front bearing is centered correctly or not.
Any ideas George?

These fans use brushes that rub against the rotor and since these are 8" fans they will coast down fairly quickly due to the friction of the brushes on the rotor compared to a non-brushed motor... The larger 16" fans take longer due to the weight of the blades... Fans with brushes have shorter spin down times...

geo...

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 02:23 am
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Levi Mevis
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Thanks George and Trevor, Seeing as my Menominee was my first experience with Brushed Motors I wasn't sure exactly how they worked as far as coasting time goes, now I know my fan may actually be working just fine.

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 02:24 am by Levi Mevis

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 05:50 pm
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James Erwin
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I just don't understand George. You are one of the luckiest guys in the club or you made some kind of deal with the fan God's.:D:P:hammer:

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 07:35 pm
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George Durbin
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James Erwin wrote: I just don't understand George. You are one of the luckiest guys in the club or you made some kind of deal with the fan God's.:D:P:hammer:
The fan God's and I are best of friends... Oh... And I work at it... I chuckle when I find a fan in someone's back yard and they say none can be found... 


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