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 Posted: Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 08:31 pm
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Richard Daugird
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I got this big Roto Beam blade. Weighs just under seven pounds. I wonder if a 1/2 h.p. furnace motor would turn it?








Should be pretty impressive mirror polished 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 01:39 am
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Jamie Williams
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Oh goodness yes. I'm assuming you have a 1725, 1800, 3600, or some other standard rpm motor. Post your motor nameplate for better help.

Last edited on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 01:39 am by Jamie Williams

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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 02:40 am
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Russ Huber
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Please measure from the center hub point out to the end of one of the wings. Take that measurement x 2 and you have the blade diameter. :tumbs


The largest diameter Roto Beam blade is ...........24".

Last edited on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 02:43 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 04:55 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Yes it's a 24". Those photos were from the ad. I don't have a motor yet. I figure I'll get a 3600 rpm and control it with a Variac. Maybe a 1/3 or 1/4 hp would work? Then I could get away with a smaller Variac. Sure makes a 16" pancake blade look small.
.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 04:57 pm
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Richard Daugird
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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 05:40 pm
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Russ Huber
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Richard Daugird wrote:
I figure I'll get a 3600 rpm and control it with a Variac. Maybe a 1/3 or 1/4 hp would work?
.

A 24" 5 wing blade driven at 3600 RPM would strip the paint off of the walls.  Where do you guys get these thoughts from?  :wondering: :D  Roto Beam used 1/3 HP Century's on the early birds it APPEARS.




The ideal motor for a 24" would be a 1/4 or 1/3 HP.  Typically 1750 RPM max. on the single speed motors  If you can find a dual speed(two winding stator) split phase 1/4 HP with a 6 pole for top end of roughly 1150 RPM....ideal.  

Attached Image (viewed 439 times):

IMG_0089 1.JPG

Last edited on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 05:41 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 05:42 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Thanks Russ, I know what to look for. I may even have one already..,.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:10 am
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David Allen
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With that 24 inch blade here is the expected results for the common motor speeds:

900 RPM - Nice fan. I would use it in my living room.
1200 RPM - Nice and powerful fan! Would use it to circulate air between living room and kitchen.
1800 RPM - Beastly badass fan!  I would be scared of it and use it for the garage when no children are around!
3600 RPM - (screaming and hollering) -  Save us from the HellFan that is turning the house into a tornado of finely ground household items!!!! Please make it stop!!!!


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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:19 am
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Russ Huber
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The biggest bada ss on the block pound for pound is the 1/4 HP single speed 1750 RPM MOLINE TURBO MIDGET.  That shovel bucket 3 wing blade scoops breeze like none other.  Back then I had it running in the living room and felt a hurricane in the kitchen.  NO BS.  Fact Jack. 

Attached Image (viewed 395 times):

fans 1 4489.jpg

Last edited on Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:20 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:23 am
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Russ Huber
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The Turbo Midget rules on the wall as well. :tumbs

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untitled.png

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:25 am
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David Allen
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Love that Turbo Midget!

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:30 am
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Richard Daugird
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Awesome fan Russ! Almost looks like the same designer...

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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 05:44 am
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James Erwin
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Turbo midget....what a great name for a fan. Great pics too Russ. Thanks for sharing!

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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 06:18 am
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Russ Huber
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Under the midget's belly.

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fans 1 4533.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 06:37 am
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Jim Kovar
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Richard Daugird wrote: ...24"  [diameter]...    I figure I'll get a 3600 rpm [motor]...

Anyone else do the math to figure


the wing tip speed in MPH?   :wondering:   :shock:

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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 12:55 pm
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John McComas
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Jim Kovar wrote: Richard Daugird wrote: ...24"  [diameter]...    I figure I'll get a 3600 rpm [motor]...

Anyone else do the math to figure


the wing tip speed in MPH?   :wondering:   :shock:
338 MPH

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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 02:57 pm
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David Allen
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I came up with a little different (yet still scary!) number.... 257.04 MPH.....

Tip speed calculation:

TipSpeed = (Π * D) * n

where:
•Tip Speed - impeller tip speed (feet per minute)
•D - impeller diameter (ft)
•n - impeller rotation speed (rpm)

So the 24 inch fan blade is 2.000 feet.
Motor is running at a theoretical synchronous speed of 3600 RPM
Pi (Π) is 3.1415926535897932384626433832795

TipSpeed = (Π * 2.000) * 3600 = 22619.5 feet/minute


To convert FPM to MPH  is  FPM * 0.0113636 = MPH


So 22619.5 * fpm * 0.0113636 = 257.04 MPH


That, my friend, is MOVING. You would need a big motor, probably in the 5 to 7 HP range. It would scare you... trust me!  :shock:


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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 07:07 pm
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David Allen
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Just to give you an idea; this fan was only running at a 151MPH tip speed:
https://youtu.be/_MPigZ_mpYI?t=88

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 02:05 am
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Jamie Williams
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All of that seems like good logic. How do you account for inertia and are you calculating for blade pitch and how the static pressure curve will affect the operating RPM?

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 03:38 am
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Richard Daugird
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Oh sh!t, get out the slide rule...

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 03:59 am
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Russ Huber
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Richard Daugird wrote: Oh sh!t, get out the slide rule...
No need for all the NASA stuff dudes.  Put the blade on one of them there 6" 3700 RPM Polar cubs.  Just put the Polar cub upon a tall stool so the blade can clear the table or floor.  :clap:

Last edited on Wed Dec 6th, 2017 04:00 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 04:00 am
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Terry Fisher
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David,


That Overkill Fan - is a Killer Fan. It sure is fun to hear and watch. Looks likes it could suck you in or it could blow the walls or windows out of your building! You could drive a steer into it and have instant hamburger.


Another great video.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 04:05 am
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Russ Huber
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David,  your calling is custom made industrial ventilation. :D

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 04:07 am
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Richard Daugird
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Yeah, I'm surprised he's not from Texas, where everything is bigger...

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 06:39 am
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Jim Kovar
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David Allen wrote: Pi (Π) is 3.1415926535897932384626433832795


Yeah David, if you want to use a


sloppy approximation.




Just trying not to be irrational...







Last edited on Wed Dec 6th, 2017 06:43 am by Jim Kovar

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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 03:05 pm
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David Allen
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Terry Fisher wrote:David,


That Overkill Fan - is a Killer Fan. It sure is fun to hear and watch. Looks likes it could suck you in or it could blow the walls or windows out of your building! You could drive a steer into it and have instant hamburger.


Another great video.



Thanks Terry. Really happy you liked that video!  That fan and its motor came from the same site as the Sturtevant #6 Monogram Blower. The fan had a smashed housing which I hammered out, and bent shaft, which I replaced. The motor was not originally from that fan, but I just put the two together to make that setup. It moves an insane amount of air. The whole building was like a dust tornado inside. You  know the overhead door "release cable" thing that you pull to disconnect the door from the motor? That was blown up and over the top of the door, and was hanging outside of the building after that run - even though the door was closed!



Jamie Williams wrote:All of that seems like good logic. How do you account for inertia and are you calculating for blade pitch and how the static pressure curve will affect the operating RPM?

Jamie, for that "quick and dirty" calculation, I just calculated for tip speed at given RPM.  Again it was an assumption that the motor ran at full synchronous speed of 3600 RPM.  Inertia would only affect how long the fan takes to reach full speed; and again this calculation assumes that the fan is at a steady-state running speed. If you have an induction motor, it will run slower than sync. speed. The calculations to predict the actual speed based on static pressure could be made, but it would be very complex, and based on the performance curve of that fan, and the slip ratio of the motor at that level of torque.  Being that is a very old fan, there is probably not an accurate performance curve available.  When analyzing complexities such as this "back in the day" they would make some rough calculations, then make a test using special instruments.  They could use a dynamometer setup that would measure actual torque required to turn the fan at a given RPM. Then if the fan did not perform as required, small changes to blade profile could be made. 

Richard Daugird wrote:Yeah, I'm surprised he's not from Texas, where everything is bigger...

Actually I was born in Fort Worth and lived in the DFW area until the en of 5th grade.  :clap:

Jim Kovar wrote:David Allen wrote:Pi (Π) is 3.1415926535897932384626433832795
Yeah David, if you want to use a
sloppy approximation.
Just trying not to be irrational...


LOL year I know it is horribly sloppy!  It is so sloppy of an approximation that Microsoft included it for FREE in the Windows Calculator program! :imao

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 Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2017 04:26 pm
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Richard Daugird
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I attatched the Roto Beam blade to a 1/4 H.P. eBay motor last night and ran it up to 50 volts with the Variac. Lots of air movement. Checked to see it was still tight, no problem. Ran it up to 70 volts, and smelled something. Small bit of smoke coming out of the motor. Uh oh...

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 Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2017 04:48 pm
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Richard Daugird
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 Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2017 04:49 pm
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Richard Daugird
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFpdxMykT_o&feature=youtu.be

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 06:34 am
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Richard Daugird
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Roto Beem?

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 01:27 pm
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David Allen
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Richard Daugird wrote:


Roto Beem?

It does look like it!

Just watched your video - that blade sounds nice running.  It's a shame the motor didn't work well like that.  This is a problem with many induction motors - they are only designed to run at full voltage and speed. The manufacturers took extra steps to allow some motors to run at lower speeds, but if the design of the motor is not made for it, you'll likely run into heartache slowing them down.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 03:22 pm
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Richard Daugird
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So it might be O. K. At full speed? I ran it for less than a minute.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 03:28 pm
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David Allen
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Richard Daugird wrote: So it might be O. K. At full speed? I ran it for less than a minute.
Run it without a blade on it at full speed / voltage and see if it runs OK. It might be OK. Sometimes there is oil or other dirt on the winding that will smoke or smell before actual damage happens.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 05:35 pm
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Russ Huber
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.

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WeberBlade.png.jpg

Last edited on Fri Dec 8th, 2017 05:42 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 05:43 pm
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Russ Huber
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.

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Last edited on Fri Dec 8th, 2017 05:44 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 06:51 pm
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Russ Huber
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This authentic Roto Beam blade owned by and AFCA member is the only AUTHENTIC Roto Beam blade that is cast for CLOCKWISE rotation.  Also each wing sports domestic and foreign cast or stamped in patent information on the backside. As you can see in Max Weber's patent the blade is cast for CCW rotation. :D

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RotoBeamblade.jpg

Last edited on Fri Dec 8th, 2017 06:52 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 06:56 pm
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Russ Huber
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No biggy, Richard, but it "appears" you have a copy casting of the Roto BEAM blade.  I highly doubt Weber would tolerate a foundry casting the BEEM word on his blade. :D

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 07:02 pm
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Richard Daugird
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As can be seen in the photo, "Beem" is barely visible. Since is is a knock-off, I'll not feel bad sanding and polishing it to mirror finish.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 07:31 pm
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Russ Huber
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Richard Daugird wrote: As can be seen in the photo, "Beem" is barely visible. Since it is a knock-off
It "APPEARS" with a fair amount of confidence to be a knock off.  It is not "GOSPEL" it is a knockoff.  As the Dunaway once said...."Never say never". :D





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 Posted: Fri Dec 8th, 2017 07:34 pm
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Russ Huber
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BTW...here is the transmission and starter to shift gears for a 20" cast aluminum blade. :D

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RotorcoilCap.png

Last edited on Fri Dec 8th, 2017 07:35 pm by Russ Huber

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