AFCA Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

 Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Rod Rogers, Larry Hancock
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Centrifugal Switch Advice  Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Apr 16th, 2018 04:34 am
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
I've been working on a 5310 Trojan.  This fan did not work when I got it. I replaced the stator with one that had been rewound.  I also disassembled and cleaned the centrifugal switch. The plates were cleaned and after reassembly it looked and worked like new.  I also shined up the male contacts which only show a very slight wear groove.  
After reassembly, the centrifugal switch seems to have a "flat spot" of about a quarter turn where the motor will not start on its own.  Thinking that perhaps the springs where too weak, I replaced them with a new set that I bought from Chad.  Still no joy.  I can hear the distinctive rattle of the switch until it disengages on startup and I again on shut down, so I know it's engaging and disengaging properly.  The "flat spot" is always in the same place rotationally, so I'm assuming that the switch plates are not making contact properly when in that area of the rotation.

Odd thing is that the motor almost acts like it want to start rotating in the wrong direction when attempting to start within the "flat spot"  Could the problem not be the centrifugal switch and actually be a badly wound start coil?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to adjust a centrifugal switch?

---Darrell

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Mon Apr 16th, 2018 04:42 am
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
Matthew Albach
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Jun 28th, 2009
Location: Pinellas Park, Florida USA
Status: 
Offline
Hi Darrell,
Do you have any pictures of the socket.that
Centrifugal start blades makes contact with it’s very possible
That the socket has worn down to a certain amount to cause
This perhaps to fix the grooves on the socket. That’s not making
Contact .

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 16th, 2018 04:29 pm
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
Chris A. Campbell
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Mar 6th, 2014
Location: Little Rock, AR
Status: 
Offline
I had the same issue with a 11644. The dead spot would not allow to start up and required turning the blade to a spot that would allow centrifugal swith to get going. Just a hum and happened around 1 in 5 times when switched on

My issue was the sleve collar connected to housing where the switch plates engage was inwards on one side. Slightly bent it outwards by hand and that was enough to allow plate to make contact each time.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 01:32 am
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Matthew Albach wrote: Hi Darrell,
Do you have any pictures of the socket.that
Centrifugal start blades makes contact with it’s very possible
That the socket has worn down to a certain amount to cause
This perhaps to fix the grooves on the socket. That’s not making
Contact .
Hey Matthew,
No, I don't have any pics before I installed it and I'm really trying to avoid pulling the stator again.  But, the groove was quite minimal.  It actually is one of the least worn centrifugal switches that I've seen.  I just spent another hour disassembling the rotor part of the switch and putting it back together.  I thought maybe I had flipped the plates, so I did a comparison between to two, thinking that maybe they would be worn asymmetrically, and perhaps that was the issue.  But they look so close to perfectly symmetric that I can't believe that would cause the problem.  Anyway, I made sure that I flipped them before reassembly, but it made no difference.

Grrr...

If I wind up pulling the stator, I'll take some pictures of the male part of the switch.

Thanks for the suggestion.

---Darrell  

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 01:34 am
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
Jamie Williams
AFCA Member


Joined: Wed Nov 16th, 2016
Location: Cary, North Carolina USA
Status: 
Offline
Darrell,

I'm not a centrifugal switch expert but I do have some extra 5310 parts if that helps.

Jamie

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 01:36 am
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Chris A. Campbell wrote: I had the same issue with a 11644. The dead spot would not allow to start up and required turning the blade to a spot that would allow centrifugal swith to get going. Just a hum and happened around 1 in 5 times when switched on

My issue was the sleve collar connected to housing where the switch plates engage was inwards on one side. Slightly bent it outwards by hand and that was enough to allow plate to make contact each time.
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the advice.  I took a look at the collar and the two halves look perfectly vertical and parallel to me. It also appears to be perfectly symmetric and round.  I'll take some pics after while.  I needed to step away from the thing before the rarity of this particular model increased by one.

I'm gonna keep tryin.

---Darrell

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 02:59 am
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Couple of pictures




Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:32 am
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Jim Humphrey
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Dec 13th, 2005
Location: Geneseo IL
Status: 
Offline
Is there any chance those springs are a bit too long?  It appears that the contact on the right isn't drawn all the way in, and if it should come to rest at shutdown near the bottom of the fan, it might lose contact with the cone.

Last edited on Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:33 am by Jim Humphrey

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:37 am
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
Jamie Williams
AFCA Member


Joined: Wed Nov 16th, 2016
Location: Cary, North Carolina USA
Status: 
Offline
Wow Darrell, that looks pretty clean.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:41 am
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Chris A. Campbell
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Mar 6th, 2014
Location: Little Rock, AR
Status: 
Offline
Something else you may try is to add a bunch of shims to shaft. Way more than needed one at a time temporarily just to position the plates on at a different location on the rear contact sleve. It will be out of its magnetic center but as a temporary set up will help locate a dead spot.


I also colored my back sleve and edges of plates with permanent marker looking for areas that did not rub off indicating my dead spot. Honestly it did not illustrate anything but may be worth a try


When I was fighting my 11644 I would also back off my 4 nuts and tap on a table top to bring strator forward rather than completely remove. I tried everything before stretching that back contat collar outwards very so slightly. Tight springs, slacked springs, small washers replaced with deltron. Drove me nuts.


it is aggrivating but you will figure it out.

My stator was also rewound but never tried to spin backwards. On the dead spot it would just hum and moving blades less than an inch took off. The dead spot was so random that once I thought it was fixed the start mechanism would land again and would start over. Since your fan does start sometimes on its own I would not think it was the rewinding

Last edited on Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:45 am by Chris A. Campbell

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 04:33 am
  PMQuoteReply
11th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Just spent some more time with it.  I removed the collar assembly.  Fortunately I left the leads long enough that I was able to work with it without having to resolder them.  To eliminate the groove in the collar as the problem I carefully ground the surface flat all around the outside of the collar.  Like I said, the groove wasn't very deep.  Still no luck. 
The new springs are identical in length to the old ones.  The coil portion is longer, but the leads on the old springs were longer.  I will probably try to shorten the original springs next and see if that helps.

I'm getting really suspicious that I've got a stator that wasn't wound quite right.  Does anyone know how a motor might behave if one of the stator coils was wrapped the wrong direction?  Once this thing is running it seems to have a bit of a harmonic oscillation.  That may be due to a slightly imbalanced rotor.  The slight jump backward when attempting to start in the "flat spot" really makes me suspicious.  I wish I knew more about electric motors.  Physics 3 was a long long time ago.

---Darrell

Last edited on Tue Apr 17th, 2018 04:37 am by Darrell Koller

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 04:38 am
  PMQuoteReply
12th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Jamie Williams wrote: Darrell,

I'm not a centrifugal switch expert but I do have some extra 5310 parts if that helps.

Jamie
Got  a stator?  :D

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 07:18 am
  PMQuoteReply
13th Post
Matthew Albach
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Jun 28th, 2009
Location: Pinellas Park, Florida USA
Status: 
Offline
Darrell,
I see the problem the centrifugal blades should be almost touching
At the ends try shorting the springs plus make sure that the screws
And washers are not causing the centrifugal blade to get hung up should move freely without any resistance I think once you get this solved it will
Take right off .

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 01:12 pm
  PMQuoteReply
14th Post
Doug Handley
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 15th, 2005
Location: Lilburn, Georgia USA
Status: 
Offline
Looking at your picture of the blades in post 7, I agree with Jim that your springs are too long.  You can clearly see that the blade on the right is not drawn all the way in as compared to the left blade.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 02:49 pm
  PMQuoteReply
15th Post
David Hoatson
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Oct 5th, 2013
Location: Chestertown, Maryland USA
Status: 
Offline
You can unplug the fan, put an ohmmeter across the two prongs on the power cord, and turn the switch to high. At this point, you will be reading the resistance of the main run windings in parallel with the start windings. Slowly turn the blade. If the resistance reading increases at any spot, then you have found a spot where the centrifugal switch is not making contact. 

Also, some fans have two small flexible wires soldered on to the weights, connecting them to each other. This makes the switch more reliable. I couldn't find a picture, but I have seen picts on the forum. Drilling 2 small holes in each weight and adding the wires may fix your issue. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 03:59 pm
  PMQuoteReply
16th Post
Dan Hilton
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Mon Mar 21st, 2011
Location: St Louis, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
I'm with Jim H. on this one.  Appears the springs are not providing enough tension to close the contacts on the copper sleeve.

.......Dan H.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2018 11:57 pm
  PMQuoteReply
17th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
You guys are awesome!!  
I shortened the original springs and tried again.  Works perfectly now every time.  I guess the originals were a bit stretched and the new ones are just too long. 

Thanks guys!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2018 12:23 am
  PMQuoteReply
18th Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
David Hoatson wrote: You can unplug the fan, put an ohmmeter across the two prongs on the power cord, and turn the switch to high. At this point, you will be reading the resistance of the main run windings in parallel with the start windings. Slowly turn the blade. If the resistance reading increases at any spot, then you have found a spot where the centrifugal switch is not making contact. 

Also, some fans have two small flexible wires soldered on to the weights, connecting them to each other. This makes the switch more reliable. I couldn't find a picture, but I have seen picts on the forum. Drilling 2 small holes in each weight and adding the wires may fix your issue. 


Clever David,

I'll remember that for the future.

---Darrell

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2018 01:06 am
  PMQuoteReply
19th Post
David Hoatson
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Oct 5th, 2013
Location: Chestertown, Maryland USA
Status: 
Offline
Darrell Koller wrote: You guys are awesome!!  
I shortened the original springs and tried again.  Works perfectly now every time.  I guess the originals were a bit stretched and the new ones are just too long. 

Thanks guys!

If the springs are too tight, the switch will not disengage, possibly burning out the start windings. 

Listen carefully. During startup, the switch should make a scratchy sound until the motor gets up to about 1/3 of its top speed, then get quiet. On shutdown, it should coast quietly and once the blade is about 1/3 of max speed, the scratchy sound should appear. The engagement speed is not important, just as long as the switch engages and disengages. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2018 01:10 am
  PMQuoteReply
20th Post
Jim Humphrey
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Dec 13th, 2005
Location: Geneseo IL
Status: 
Offline
Darrell, just be sure the springs aren't providing too much tension now, so the switch doesn't disengage.  That would be bad.  If you can hear the contacts drop as the fan coasts down, you're good to go.  Jim
Oops, David beat me to it, and did it better than me!

Last edited on Wed Apr 18th, 2018 01:12 am by Jim Humphrey

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2018 02:13 am
  PMQuoteReply
21st Post
Darrell Koller
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2015
Location: Ballwin, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Yep, I'm on it. Switch is definitely disengaging at about the right speed.

Thanks guys!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

Current time is 11:09 pm  
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Centrifugal Switch Advice Top



Beige Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2098 seconds (23% database + 77% PHP). 32 queries executed.