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Early 1910 BMY Questions  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 09:20 pm
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Russ Huber
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Last edited on Wed May 16th, 2018 09:21 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 09:25 pm
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Russ Huber
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Is the starting and run problem a capacitor issue, if so,  what value cap. do I need?  :wondering:

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 09:30 pm
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Russ Huber
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The object is bypass the resistor wire ring around the coil laminations with a capacitor....right? 

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 10:15 pm
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Russ Huber
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The Newcity messed with one of these in past.  Capacitor won't work?? 


https://afcaforum.com/forum1/16937.html

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 11:18 pm
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Russ Huber
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One more thing,  does anyone have a 1910 top motor mount flat strut BMY with the rounded 08-09 style brass motor to trunnion bolts? All the 1910 models I have seen with the base pivot feature have flat brass trunnion mounting bolts.  My serial is 510973.

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Last edited on Wed May 16th, 2018 11:21 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 11:55 pm
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Lane Shirey
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Russ, did it have a halo resistor around the speed coil originally?  If not , you might have the type that has the resistance built into the stator as a nichrome winding. They didn't have external resistance coils and therefore don't need a capacitor. 

Perhaps if so, your nichrome winding might be bad..  Measure your headwire readings, if they're all about equal, you have the type that can use a cap, and should have originally has a halo resistor. If they're unequal, the stator has the nichrome winding. Any opens in the headwire pairs?

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 11:57 pm
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Lane Shirey
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what are your ohm readings between the headwire pairs?

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 Posted: Thu May 17th, 2018 12:44 am
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Russ Huber
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Lane Shirey wrote: Russ, did it have a halo resistor around the speed coil originally?  If not , you might have the type that has the resistance built into the stator as a nichrome winding. They didn't have external resistance coils and therefore don't need a capacitor. 

Perhaps if so, your nichrome winding might be bad..  Measure your headwire readings, if they're all about equal, you have the type that can use a cap, and should have originally has a halo resistor. If they're unequal, the stator has the nichrome winding. Any opens in the headwire pairs?

This is a stump I had in my pile from the past I  am piecing back together.  This is not a fan that was tampered with, with a serial of 510973. The switch and its contents are connected to the original headwire asit was from the factory.  I have been going through a number of my as purchased BMYs in my stash to get them at least functional status.


I thought there may be an easy answer or solution to get it all together and running and back in the stash for another day.  It appears that isn't going to happen.  I have to get out the meter. Thanks for your input, Lane.

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 Posted: Thu May 17th, 2018 09:53 am
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Lane Shirey
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My opinion then Russ, is that since it hasn't been messed with, it has the nichrome coil wound into the stator and it's bad. That nichrome coil provides the directional kick to get it started but also contributes to the overall motor torque.
Your symptoms indicate burned out start (nichrome) winding. 


I guess there's no chance it's a centrifugal start? I thought they were only '08 though. Unfortunately I think the situation above is the correct one. 

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 Posted: Fri May 18th, 2018 01:21 pm
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Russ Huber
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Lane Shirey wrote: My opinion then Russ, is that since it hasn't been messed with, it has the nichrome coil wound into the stator and it's bad. That nichrome coil provides the directional kick to get it started but also contributes to the overall motor torque.
Your symptoms indicate burned out start (nichrome) winding. 


I guess there's no chance it's a centrifugal start? I thought they were only '08 though. Unfortunately I think the situation above is the correct one.  

I am inclined to agree with your impression of the stator. One of the readings off the stator is extremely high. I had no clue the ring with resistor wire surrounding the laminations was inside this thing.  :D  I bought it as a stump years ago. The ohm resistance of the switch resistance coil at 125 ohms.  The switch itself appears healthy for its age.  When I powered it wired as found the motor will run on 3 distinct speeds as I can hear the motor speed decrease as the lever is moved over the 3 speed positions.  The problem is as stated above is I have to finger spin the rotor to get it to start.  When it achieves full speed on high and I  pinch the protruding rotor shaft it lacks the motor torque to maintain speed.  That would be the heads up on your impression of the stator. Definitely not a centrifugal switch model.


I have had this stump for years and never paid much attention to it.  I don't think I have ever seen another 1910 model intended for flat top mount strut, base motor pivot, with the rounded trunnion to motor mounting bolts. Anyone out there have one like this?  I have to dig up another phase shift stator in the pile for the old girl.  :D

Last edited on Fri May 18th, 2018 01:21 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sat May 19th, 2018 01:15 pm
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John McComas
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I think you can use a capacitor to make a PSC motor if you have two sets of windings...
Main winding  (low resistance)
Start winding or auxiliary winding. (same, or higher resistance)

My thoughts were to put the capacitor in place of the centrifugal switch.
Seems like a value of 6-7 mfd is a good starting value.

Have you tried that?
Happy Fanning!

http://www.fancollectors.org/info/mccomas/GE_BMY_Swndr_Cap.jpg


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 Posted: Sat May 19th, 2018 02:22 pm
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Russ Huber
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John McComas wrote: I think you can use a capacitor to make a PSC motor if you have two sets of windings...
Main winding  (low resistance)
Start winding or auxiliary winding. (same, or higher resistance)

My thoughts were to put the capacitor in place of the centrifugal switch.
Seems like a value of 6-7 mfd is a good starting value.

Have you tried that?
Happy Fanning!

http://www.fancollectors.org/info/mccomas/GE_BMY_Swndr_Cap.jpg



It is not just a starting issue, John.  The motor itself has poor torque.  I put in its place a more common BMY phase shift switch and coil. The motor does the same thing when power is applied...hum.  By spinning the rotor shaft with the tip of my fingers the motor will run and pick up speed.  As I move the switch slide lever to medium and low I can hear the motor drop in RPM.  If I apply a blade to the rotor shaft, power the motor, and give the blade a spin, the motor does not have the torque to gain speed and slowly loses power until the blade stops.  


If in fact they wound resistance wire into this stator, that engineer should have been given a fair trial and executed.  I have a number of Kidney oscillator stumps.  Do you think GE could of been keen enough to maintain the same motor stator and rotor design in these BMY Kidney stumps for a on the money swap??  NO.....they had to change the design of those as well.  Those engineers should have also been given a fair trial and promptly executed.   :D

G.ood E.nough working for you.  

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 06:19 am
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Russ Huber
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I took the stator and switch/speed coil out of 12" GE BMY kidney stump with stator bolts with brass acorns for the donor.  You can see the original guts(stator, rotor, switch/coil, stator bolts) of the 1910 model laying in the mess. The donor stator has less laminations and the rotor body was not as wide.  It runs great with its new guts.  :clap: :D

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 06:24 am
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Russ Huber
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Got lucky again. The fan runs at residence fan motor speed high to low speed. The digital read out is fan motor RPM at High setting and low speed.

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 08:25 pm
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Russ Huber
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FWIW....using the later GE Kidney stump stator did not require modification. The internal casting features of both housings matched.  Even though the kidney was a later model than my 1910 it still was using the brass acorns on the stator studs.  The studs on the later kidney had internal retaining nuts and additional threading to snug the stator inside being it lacks the lamination stack thickness of the earlier 1910 model.  GE reduced the size and amount of material used in both the stator and rotor post 1910, yet maintained fan motor performance. 


The only thing I modified was the rotor.  I had to hack saw off the narrow back end of the rotor shaft that the worm gear was mounted on.  With this removed it matched the rotor shaft length, bearing ride surface, and end play stops on shaft of the 1910 rotor shaft. 


I have run the fan for long periods of time with no overheating issues either motor or speed coil.  Both high and low speeds.


It sure beats a $250.00+ motor rewind.   :D



I will have to modify the switch coil stand offs by reducing their length to lower the coil so the switch fits in the low profile 1910 base.  

Last edited on Sun May 20th, 2018 08:28 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 08:38 pm
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Russ Huber
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Thanks to a lifeless kidneyless kidney donor, the life of my 1910 BMY has been saved.    :clap: :D 



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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 10:11 pm
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Lane Shirey
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Apparently the nichrome winding in the kidney stator was good. Glad you got it going Russ!

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 11:01 pm
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Russ Huber
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Lane Shirey wrote: Apparently the nichrome winding in the kidney stator was good. Glad you got it going Russ!
The Kidney had just a common phase shift coil.  Did the stator have nichrome winding....?  I didn't see anything in the winding that looked like nichrome.

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 11:12 pm
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Russ Huber
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Keep in mind this 1910 BMY has a later replacement stator and rotor from a later GE kidney oscillator.



I bypassed the INTACT nichrome resistor ring on the original switch and directly ran the stator wire connection under the switch to the High terminal.  The speed coil has phase shift ability and the fan starts and runs fine absent of the nichrome resistor ring.  If I add the resistor ring in the circuit the fan starts and runs slower than the RPM specs. I took seen in the image without it. 

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 Posted: Sun May 20th, 2018 11:20 pm
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Russ Huber
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This fan would be great for the bedroom. I could put a 6 wing blade on it based on its motor/blade RPM.


Nothing is overheating so far and I have had it running for a while high and low.

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2018 06:09 am
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Russ Huber
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On the left the 1910 12" 4 wing blade stationary early top motor mount flat strut stator and rotor.  On the right a GE BMY/AB/Jandus 1912+ 12" 4 wing blade stationary desk fan. Both phase shift start motors.


GE went from early threaded on each end removable stator studs nutted on each end with the thicker lamination stack and more copper stator.....to the thinner lamination stack less copper stator with studs nutted on each end and an internal nut to snug the stator per stud.....to same stator now with 4 threaded brass screws per side to front bell snug the stator and rear bell attachment.


The stator and rotor on the right is the size donors I successfully implanted inside the 1910 motor housing with no backfire regarding operation and efficiency. I also transplanted a later healthier phase shift 12" BMY speed coil. 

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Last edited on Wed May 23rd, 2018 06:11 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2018 11:45 am
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John McComas
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Congratulations Dr. Frankenhuber!
It's ALIVE!
...and without the deadly backfire!
...Make sure the Fan Police are satiated by modifying the motor tag to reflect design modifications! 
Ha Ha! 
Happy Fanning Russ!

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2018 12:58 pm
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Russ Huber
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John McComas wrote: Congratulations Dr. Frankenhuber!
It's ALIVE!
...and without the deadly backfire!
...Make sure the Fan Police are satiated by modifying the motor tag to reflect design modifications! 
Ha Ha! 
Happy Fanning Russ!


I dig this kind of stuff.  The Newcity is more disciplined and detailed than I that he documents everything at the Arkansas Emerson Research facility.  Me, I just get under the hood and start twisting bolts, miss and match, and tossing parts until it works, or the alternative.  :clap: :D


Ya..... GE engineers between 10-12 hacked off 1/3 of the material they were using on the stator and rotor and came up with a brilliant conclusion...…..the fan runs the same.  :hammer: :D




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Last edited on Wed May 23rd, 2018 01:43 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2018 01:47 pm
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Russ Huber
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One more thing, being I transplanted a better speed coil and switch plate I had to reduce the lengthof the coil stand offs and remove 4 laminations off the top of the coil stack for the donor coil and lamination stack to have the proper clearance in the base.


You need proper clearance on top, and correct clearance for the switch lever knife passing under the coil sheathing.

Last edited on Wed May 23rd, 2018 01:49 pm by Russ Huber

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