AFCA Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Troubleshoot a Diehl desktop oscillating fan

 Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Rod Rogers, Larry Hancock
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Troubleshoot a Diehl desktop oscillating fan  Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2018 11:40 pm
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
The good news: I've finally finished restoring a Diehl desktop oscillating fan (late '30's early '40's)
The bad news: It only hums on fast and medium and makes a few slow rotations on slow before just humming.

I started this project last year, when I posted topic_id=47942 looking for a replacement switch. When I found the fan, it was badly rusted, but worked fine on the one speed the old switch was stuck on. I took it completely apart so that I could sand and paint the stand, the fan blades, the cage and the motor housing.
I reassembled it and soldered the throttle coil wires to the switch: black on slow, white on medium, red and one lead from the fan motor to fast, the white wire from the outlet cord to the remaining switch pole, just like the previous switch, then connected the black outlet cord lead to the other fan motor lead with a wire nut. 

I'm not sure if I did something wrong, or if leaving the motor parts lying on a workbench for almost a year had an affect.

Any troubleshooting suggestions are welcome. I have a multimeter, but don't know much about electrical motors.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Mon Jul 2nd, 2018 11:33 am
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
Lane Shirey
AFCA Member


Joined: Wed Apr 30th, 2014
Location: Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
Status: 
Offline
Does the blade spin freely when spun by hand? If not, you’ll need to figure out what’s binding it. It might have self centering bearings that might be cockeyed. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2018 04:46 am
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Lane Shirey wrote: Does the blade spin freely when spun by hand? If not, you’ll need to figure out what’s binding it. It might have self centering bearings that might be cockeyed. 
I don't recall how freely it spun before I disassembled it, but it only spins about a quarter turn when I give the fan blade a nudge now.

I don't know the correct terminology, but the center shaft with the big barrel magnet seems to be interacting (magnetically?) with the collar of copper wirings when inserted through it, causing some resistance to spinning. One end of the shaft has large threading and it fits into a cup inside one end of the motor housing. The other end of the shaft protrudes through the other end of the motor housing, where the fan blade is connected with a set screw.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 05:15 am
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Jeff Jones
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 18th, 2014
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
That definitely sounds like an alignment issue. Either one of the ends is not fitting on squarely and is causing the bushing & rotor to fit in cockeyed, or possibly 1 or more stator shims fell out.

The rotor will bind on the stator when only 1 end is on...you have to have both ends on for it to run freely. Try this 1st... once you have the end back on, and if its still tight try tapping the shaft from all directions with a rubber mallet or the back end of a big screwdriver. If it has self centering bushings this will align them. See if it spins more freely after doing this. Give the shaft a pretty good hit but don't slam it like you were driving a nail into a board. But give it a firm but gentle tap from all different directions, top/bottom, left, right.

The part w/ the big barrel magnet is the rotor, and the other part with the coils is the stator.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2018 04:03 am
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Thanks Jeff, getting closer. I partially disassembled the motor housing, removing the front face and the rotor. I don't think the rotor shaft had been fully in the receptacle inside the rear face, so I tapped the rotor shaft in with a rubber mallet. When I reassembled the front face, the shaft seemed to spin more freely. When I turned it on, it began spinning, but when I moved the switch to the middle position, it stopped and just hummed, and in the third position it moved slowly. When I went back to the first position, it no longer spun, just hummed. I reconnected the fan blade to the shaft and spun it by hand. It would turn a few revolutions, which was better than the quarter revolution previously. When I turned it back on and put it in the third position, I spun it by hand a few times and it began spinning on its own, eventually close to normal speed, but making quite a bit of noise. I could make and post a youtube video if that would be helpful. I also noticed that the shaft appears to move in and out a bit, maybe a quarter of an inch travel. Is this an issue or normal behavior? The oscillation appears to be working ok when the fan is spinning, but the grease is thick and black. Should it be repacked?

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2018 04:43 pm
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Richard Daugird
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 12th, 2017
Location: Texas City, Between Hou. & Galveston, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
First thing I do when I get an old fan is clean and re-grease the oscillator.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 12:57 am
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Richard Daugird wrote: First thing I do when I get an old fan is clean and re-grease the oscillator.Thanks Richard. I was hesitant to disassemble the oscillator, not knowing what it was comprised of, but I decided to have a go and when I saw it was basically a couple of gears, I cleaned out all the old chunks of grease and repacked it. This seemed to help a little. It's quieter, but still only hums on the first two switch postions and I have to give the fan blades a few spins for it to spin on its own in the third position. I'm not sure what else I can try.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 11:21 am
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Lane Shirey
AFCA Member


Joined: Wed Apr 30th, 2014
Location: Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
Status: 
Offline
The rotor cannot have any drag on it. One possible problem is that the bearings are worn. If you lift up and down on the blade, is there play in the front bearing? It’s possble the rotor is dragging on the stator. 
1/4 turn of free spin is not nearly enough and will cause the problems you’re describing. You need to solve that problem first. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2018 02:03 am
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
Jeff Jones
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 18th, 2014
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
1/4 inch of in and out play is a bit excssive...it needs fiber washers to take up some of that slack. 1/8 inch is a good number...doesn't have to be exact but 1/4 is too much. Don't want it too tight either though...you do need some back and forth play.

I still say the bearings are not aligning right. Did you try tapping the shaft? Does it get any looser if you leave the housing screws loose?

The grease shouldn't be real thick and waxy...if it is. clean it all out and replace with red & tacky or wheel bearing grease are both adequate.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2018 12:18 am
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Jeff Jones wrote: 1/4 inch of in and out play is a bit excssive...it needs fiber washers to take up some of that slack. 1/8 inch is a good number...doesn't have to be exact but 1/4 is too much. Don't want it too tight either though...you do need some back and forth play.

I still say the bearings are not aligning right. Did you try tapping the shaft? Does it get any looser if you leave the housing screws loose?

The grease shouldn't be real thick and waxy...if it is. clean it all out and replace with red & tacky or wheel bearing grease are both adequate.
Jeff, I removed the front face (fan side) of the housing and pulled the rotor out. The inside center of both the front and rear faces each have a hole and a recess where a metal cap fits in. The cap has a center hole about the same diameter as the metal washer on the rotor shaft and the metal washer fits in the cap. Currently, the cap and washer from the rear are off the face and the washer is stuck inside the cap. The cap in the front face is firmly in the face and the washer is free. There was a second (fiber?) washer on the front shaft of the rotor, but when I slid it off the shaft, it split in two and it was very brittle, I easily split one half again.Is there supposed to be a fiber washer on both ends of the rotor shaft? Are replacements easy to locate?
Thanks for your help.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2018 11:57 am
  PMQuoteReply
11th Post
Ed Trembicki-Guy
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Jul 11th, 2017
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
I found fiber washers at Home Depot. They were thin, so I put two on each shaft. I reassembled the fan and it's running on all three speeds! Thanks for all your help.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2018 09:20 pm
  PMQuoteReply
12th Post
Jeff Jones
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 18th, 2014
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Nice! Sorry for the late reply but yes there are supposed to be fiber washers on both sides. Typically you want to add them in such a way that you magnetically center the rotor as best as possible...and end up with about 1/8inch of back and forth play.

That metal cap sounds like it was the bushing possibly...and b/c of the excess shaft clearance it had popped out and was binding the shaft up.

Glad you found the washers and got it up and running. I ordered a pack of every size available from McMaster-Carr, as home depot didn't have the size I needed. You lucked out if they had the proper size...unless they've added more in the past few yrs. When I went they only had like 3 different options.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

Current time is 12:44 pm  
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Troubleshoot a Diehl desktop oscillating fan Top



Beige Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.1855 seconds (23% database + 77% PHP). 31 queries executed.