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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > GE Prepay Hotel Fan Questions
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > GE Prepay Hotel Fan Questions | |||||
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| GE Prepay Hotel Fan Questions | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2018 10:00 pm |
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1st Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Hello.I have recently acquired one of these “pay fans” made by General Electric. I have some questions about it and I was wondering if any of you could help me out. It has the original coin safe door, which is unfortunately locked. How do I open it without destroying it? Is there a key number? Is it like a file cabinet key? Also, how do I remove the base cover? It seems like it should be pried off, but I don’t know and prefer not to destroy it. Any advice or information about this fan would be appreciated greatly. Thanks
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| Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2018 10:14 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Steve Bolin AFCA Member 
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Bill, Kim Frank is a excellent source for all coin op fan questions. I know a lot of the guys are on there way to fan fair so hopefully he will chime in on any questions you may have in the next day or so. Congrads on your fan those fans are one of my favorites.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2018 12:08 am |
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3rd Post |
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John Fengel AFCA Member 
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Bill Thorner wrote: Hello.I have recently acquired one of these “pay fans” made by General Electric. I have some questions about it and I was wondering if any of you could help me out. It has the original coin safe door, which is unfortunately locked. How do I open it without destroying it? Is there a key number? Is it like a file cabinet key? I'm afraid you're on your own as they were likely unique to every fan - Mine opens with a small screwdriver acting like a key - you might also check with a Locksmith
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| Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2018 06:38 am |
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4th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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I managed to pick the lock and remove the bottom. The key is still a problem. It is a real lock. My fan has a wiper sort of switch on the bottom base. I don't know if that switches it on or off. All of the wiring was in too poor of shape for me to test the functionality of anything on the fan. Just about everything on the fan was poorly spray painted gold and it is making it quite challenging to deal with any of the disassembly. Would I be best off repainting it the original black and bringing the blades back to a shined brass look, or should I leave it painted gold? The paint job looks pretty old, maybe 60s or 70s?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2018 01:39 pm |
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5th Post |
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John Fengel AFCA Member
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Post some pictures, especially the Switch and anything above the Switch in the Base.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2018 11:50 am |
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6th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member 
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The coin op fan comes apart in a certain order and has to be put back together in a certain order. The slide switch turns the fan on and off when a nickel has been used to bring the continuity switch In contact with the continuity screw. Most times that continuity switch has been bypassed , causing the Timing gear to be stripped. If you want me to walk you thru Disassembly, pm me and I will contact you next week, once I get back from Fan Fair.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2018 08:00 pm |
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7th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Alright. Thanks for the info. This fan is all original and has not been ran in probably the last 60 years. It is pretty ugly and rusty. I don’t even know if it runs to be honest. It is nearly apart. Would it be best to repaint it? It was poorly sprayed gold and the paint is easy to pick off. The original paint underneath is not in great shape. I found the lock number or key code. Whichever it is, I don’t know. The lock is marked GE3 and is a completely brass lock. Probably original. Inside the coin box it has a counter clocked up to 354. Can anyone give me info about the key? Thanks
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| Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2018 03:19 am |
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8th Post |
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Levi Mevis AFCA Member 
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I'm guessing GE either made their own locks for those fans or they sourced them from a local to their factory where they made these fans locksmith shop, either way unless you have the original key blanks for that lock then I'm guessing there's no way to get a new key made for that lock seeing as that fan is almost 100 years old if not over 100 years old and more than likely any key blanks that existed at one time for the locks on those fans were more than likely scrapped out over the years, you might be better off finding a new lock for the fan as I'm pretty sure the lock used on that fan could be easily swapped out for a lock set like what they use on your arcade games and pinball machines now a days.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2018 01:11 pm |
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9th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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I have had a couple of keys made for original bank doors made. Find an older locksmith and he can find the right blank to fit and then can try to make it work. What I have done in the past is to pull the little keeper strip from the rear of the lock's barrel and remove the pins and springs. The lock will then operate with just the blank key. Save the pieces and keep with the fan. In my opinion, the original bank door is nice to have with the fan, but I don't feel it adds much value. The oscillating coin op has a cast iron square door, but after that, they're just a thin piece of steel. Not real attractive compared to a polished brass door with lock and key.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 12:23 am |
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10th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Alright. I will try to get the keys made. Do you have the key number? about how much does it cost to get the key made? Anyways, I have a question about disassembly. The coin mechanism, how does it dismount? I have all on the electric parts removed and the counter assembly. Pretty much everything from the base is removed including the large nut above the coin mechanism. I still cant figure out how to get the coin mech out though. Also, should I get the gold paint off or leave it? it is pretty easily removed with water. it is on every exterior part. under it there is the original paint. not the best condition, but still mostly intact.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 12:38 pm |
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11th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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There is no "coin mechanism" per se. If you have taken the fan apart enough to where you have removed the nut holding the timing gear housing to the base, then you just need to knock it out of the base. It can be tight. I use a drift punch to hit around the threaded stem to remove it. Do not bang on the stem. The whole housing is pot metal on the one speed coin ops. Attached Image (viewed 585 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 03:06 pm |
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12th Post |
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Tristan Crider AFCA Member 
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Just curious, how much do these usually go for? I REALLY want one.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 03:14 pm |
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13th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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A complete and working one speed coin op will sell in the $1250-1500 range in original condition. $1750-2000 if restored. Add a thousand to that for DC versions and three speeds... Attached Image (viewed 562 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 07:44 pm |
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14th Post |
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Vic Valencheck AFCA Member 
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Hey Kim, I like that color. I think I might paint mine the same color when I start restoring mine. What color paint is that? And was it powder coated?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 08:53 pm |
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15th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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That is charcoal slate metallic. Basecoat/clearcoat urethane....It's one of my favorite finishes to do on coin ops..... Attached Image (viewed 532 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 08:58 pm |
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16th Post |
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Vic Valencheck AFCA Member
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Kim Frank wrote: That is charcoal slate metallic. Basecoat/clearcoat urethane....It's one of my favorite finishes to do on coin ops.....Thanks Kim , I can see why it is. 
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11th, 2018 11:14 pm |
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17th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Thank you for explaining the process of removing the timing gear housing. How do I remove the threaded shaft that passes through it? The shaft that is connected to the knob you turn that drops the coin into the bank with the electric contact bushing thing threaded on it. I am wondering how I remove it from The timing gear housing so I can remove the timing gear housing.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2018 01:13 pm |
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18th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Remove the counter actuator and the tube it fits in. Use a screwdriver that is wide enough to span the tube opening because you don't want to bugger up the threads. Once that is removed, pull the nickel knob out and remove the continuity screw. Make sure the bolt and set screws are out of the neck and then you can lift the motor out. If you go any further, remember that the shoulder screw that holds the pawl assembly linkage to the front transmission is left handed. The bolt that holds the timing gear housing to the base is 1-1/2 inch Last edited on Mon Aug 13th, 2018 12:48 pm by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2018 04:22 pm |
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19th Post |
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Tristan Crider AFCA Member
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How many companies made the coin op fan? The only one I have seen is G.E.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2018 05:23 pm |
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20th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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My motor was lifted out by 2 set screws. The nut was 1-7/16. So the leadscrew that the counter actuators mount on is removed by unthreadimg the counter actuators so the lead screw is sticking less into the zinc cast thing that the lead screw rests in and then pulling? Or once the actuators and unthreaded as much as possible do I pull on the leadscrew through the knob? I think I will need to upload pictures as I am quite confused.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2018 05:45 pm |
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21st Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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If you have already lifted the motor off the base without removing everything from the base, then some damage has been done to either the timing gear or spur gear. Most likely the timing gear. While these fans aren't rocket science, there is an exact sequence in which they come apart and go back together.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2018 10:37 pm |
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22nd Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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No damage is done as far as I can tell. This fan expierienced little usage in its short lifetime as a functional fan. It has sat in a moist environment for probably 70 years. The counter reads about 400 uses. The motor pulled off effortlessly. The worm gear attached to the motor looks pretty good. It was well oiled. The motor was disassembled on the base and the mechanism for timing in the fan was disassembled in the motor housing. I doubt any damage occurred as it all looks ok. The leadscrew is still quite a challenge for me. I don’t know how I remove it. I will post pictures later today. Thanks
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 10:04 am |
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23rd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The motor isn't supposed to lift out easily from the base...The worm on the spur gear will roll the timing gear as it is lifted out when the timing gear isn't held by the continuity screw. I would say the timing gear is stripped.....
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 01:49 pm |
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24th Post |
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Michael Rathberger AFCA Member 
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Tristan Crider wrote: How many companies made the coin op fan? The only one I have seen is G.E. I know Westinghouse made them, there were two for sale at fan fair as well and there's one in the museum. Might get you to hit the Indy show this September...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 04:27 pm |
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25th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The Westinghouse coin operated fan used a clockwork mechanism to run the fan. The fan sat on a metal base which housed the mechanism. The parts that you rotated when inserting a dime were made from pot metal and are usually in really poor condition, if in there at all. The way it worked was you inserted a dime, rotated a handle 180 degrees. That set the clock to operate for two hours and then it would trip the switch, shutting of power to the fan motor. Here's a link to a post I did a few years back on the W/H coin op...... http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=38144&forum_id=1&highlight=westinghouse+coin+op Last edited on Mon Aug 13th, 2018 04:41 pm by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 04:58 pm |
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26th Post |
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Tristan Crider AFCA Member
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Wow, I've never seen a Westy coin op. Thanks for the post!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 08:12 pm |
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27th Post |
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Chad Hunter AFCA Member
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Hey Kim, what is this on the Westy Coin Op you restored. Attached Image (viewed 357 times):
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2018 11:16 pm |
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28th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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I believe that is a bit of 'bling' that I added, along with a couple of brass grommets in the base. Being a stamped steel Westy, I had to add a bit of value to it...….
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2018 01:27 am |
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29th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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My photo did not upload. I had tried to upload one yesterday but it would not load. style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 238);"I guess the proper name for the part that is troubling me is the continuity screw. I cant remove it along with the knob. I don't know if I pull on it or unthread or if it is fastened in some strange way. The continuity screw with the knob are both held into the base by the cast zinc[highlight= rgb(255, 255, 238); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); display: inline; float: none; font-family: Arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;] part that houses the bearing the shaft of the continuity screw sits in. I have the nut off of the zinc parts (the 1-7/16 nut) but the zinc part is still held in by the continuity screw. The continuity screw is held in somehow. I don't know how. the knob and screw are what I am trying to remove. I have no idea how to remove them. Is there an exploded parts list or something similar? I don't want to damage the knob and continuity screw. I just don't see how the knob and continuity screw are fastened to the base and without knowing I cant disassemble this any further. style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 238);"Thanks
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2018 01:33 am |
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30th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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You remove the nickle knob by removing the counter actuator and the tube that holds it. The knob has a slot in it that is secured by the end of the tube. Once you unscrew the tube, the knob will pull out and then you can unscrew the continuity screw. What is your location. If you're close to Indianapolis, bring it by and I can fix this in five minutes... Last edited on Tue Aug 14th, 2018 01:35 am by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2018 06:23 am |
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31st Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Unfortunately I am in Hammond, the city next to Gary. Sort of near the lakeshore. Also not old enough to drive. So having it done by you is sadly not an option. Thank you for offering though. I found a big old Irwin screwdriver from WW2. It is the only screwdriver wide enough to span the tube. Its soaked in oil and really abused. Will have to sand down the tip to a normal form tomorrow. The tube is really tight. Is it a normal right hand thread or left? I know it is really tight. Is it a tight fitting taper or what? I was confused with counter actuator in the beginning. I forgot about the counter actuator for the actual hour counter. was only thinking of another actuator. The gears in the front bearing gearbox look really nice for bronze. Not chewy or sharp. Don't know how to open that gearbox either. From what I can see without the cover off, those gears look great. At least it was saturated with what looks like SAE 20 oil and some moldy smelling water. I guess I payed 30 dollars for a reason. If it the timing gear is unusable I can make a new one. Also, how does the field coil come out? seems pretty stuck. I got both motor caps off. I am quite experienced with electric motor repair, so that's not a problem. I have probably rebuilt around 50 motors in the last 3 years. How hot does this models shaded pole motor run? around 125 like the rest of the GEs or hotter? Thanks for all the information
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2018 12:56 pm |
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32nd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The tube is just a normal SAE thread. Righty tighty Lefty loosey.....The transmission gears come apart by removing the hex nut on the front of the housing and the domed slotted screw on the back cover. You have to walk the stator out of the motor housing. I use a drift punch. One speed coin op motors run inherently hot....nature of the beast. The timing gear is a double lead left hand twist. It's held in place by a horseshoe clip...
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 12:59 am |
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33rd Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Alright. Its apart. Thank you Kim Frank for the information, I could not get it apart without your help. If the timing gear is a bronze gear that acts as a bronze bearing too, it is actually not damaged at all. It was covered in oil and I imagine the motor came off so easily since it was lubricated for the last 50 years. it look like someone used the wrong oil, maybe a gear oil of some sort. It is surely not SAE 20 as required for most if not all bronze bearings in electric applications. I opened the front gearbox to find some oil and grease that had completely solidified. I guess I expected that. I removed the part which I believe is the timing gear housing with a decent sized chunk of lead and hammer. Threads are ok and the nut still threads on tight as usual. The lead took all the impact. All parts are ok as far as I can tell, but I have a new major problem that is stopping any progress for awhile. style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 238);"I brought the motor outside (not the whole thing, just the casting and coil) to remove the coil. I began to oil around the coil so it could loosen up the coil a little. I used real oil instead of something like WD40. Anyways, I was getting ready to remove the thing and saw something... An earwig. Alive too. I sprayed it with brake cleaner... hope it didn't soften the winding wire lacquer. One had fallen out alive the day we got it. Though it was just in there since it came from a moist place. Apparently not. This has lead me to not putting the parts in my basement anymore and outside on the table... I really am not a fan of bugs. I know this can be risky if it rains, but either way its not coming in unless everything is dead. I don't know if the bugs laid eggs or what, but I am not taking a chance on these things repopulating in the house. What should I do? put the motor in a sealed box and put a five minute smoke bomb in with it? What wont damaging the winding but kill everything living in it? style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 238);" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 238);"Also, what should I do about the paint? What do you guys think is best for the fan?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 01:36 pm |
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34th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Here is a pic of the timing gear and housing. The spur gear that sits under the stator and comes out thru the brass tube on the bottom of the motor slides into the top of the housing and the worm cut into the shaft of the spur gear engages the outer teeth of the timing gear. When the continuity screw is twisted into place thru the double lead threads in the center of the timing gear, the worm on the spur gear is effectively locked into place. There is NO play in this fit and no matter how well lubricated the spur worm and timing gear are, the motor will not lift out of the timing gear housing without the continuity screw first being removed......unless three teeth on the timing gear are stripped...... Attached Image (viewed 233 times):
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 01:52 pm |
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35th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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If your fan had the wiring bypassed around the continuity switch and was operated without having to use a nickle, chances are most likely the gear is stripped, here are the gears from coin ops I have set up in the last year. None of the fans had a viable timing gear.........and all had their continuity switch bypassed. Attached Image (viewed 235 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 03:10 am |
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36th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Alright. Bad news. Let someone touch the fan parts and they dropped the motor. Of course to make things worse, the worm gear bent and is damaged. I might be able to machine a new one. If not, I will probably spend a mint on a new or sell the parts here. This sucks. I didn’t even look at the motor casting as this is horrible enough for me. Can’t take much more of this infested rust bucket... seems like a time and money pit and I don’t even know if it works.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2018 02:40 am |
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37th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Checked out the damage earlier today and forgot to see if it (the worm) was steel. The worm is bent and developed a crack at the bend. The casting is ok though. Atleast that’s not broken. You think I could heat the gear to an glowing orange color, bend it back to shape, weld over the gear and then recut the worm on a lathe?
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2018 11:27 pm |
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38th Post |
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Bill Thorner Guest
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Big news! Just went back to the place I got the fan from. I came home with another prepay fan. This one is missing most of the coin mechanism. I only need one piece from it. It has that piece. So anyone interested in the other fan’s parts can email me. This fan is not in pretty shape. It would need lots of love if anyone were to buy the whole thing. All original parts... Anyways, this fan seems to have some little differences and I am wondering why. The switch has less clearance and the model plate is shorter. This one, just like the other was poorly painted gold... the ends of the motor seem to stick out a little more too. I will have to scrape the model plate clean and compare those. Any information about the new fan would be appreciated.
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