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Another option for soldering head wires?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:38 pm
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George Durbin
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This looks strong but wut do the pros and u amateurs alike think?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fancollectors/permalink/889709704553848/



Geo...

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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:42 pm
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Levi Mevis
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I've seen that ad before on my facebook page as well, it looks good but not sure how much that stuff costs, as they don't give a price for it or if you would only be able to get it online or if it could be bought at your regular hardware store. I do lots of soldering when I work on old radios and something like that would certainly be nice for installing new capacitors in old radios.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:46 pm
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David Kilnapp
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Problem is that sometimes one only has a half inch or less wire protruding from the case where the head wires have been cut. That doesn't give you much to work with if you don't want to pull the stators out. And Westinghouse stators don't come out easily. GE's are a different story. I wouldn't mind giving these a try.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:51 pm
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George Durbin
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No one application is good for everything but... I think this has added options to our tool kit... It is $20 for 50 pieces which doesnt sound outrageous to me...
Geo...

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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:57 pm
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John Fengel
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Amazon $26.24 for 100 pcs free shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Sopoby-Waterproof-Automotive-Electrical/dp/B01FI6IKG6

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 Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2018 09:58 pm
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George Durbin
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Hi John!

Can you refill the kit for just the guage wire you use the most?
Ps... Has anyone here used this stuff?


Geo...

Last edited on Wed Aug 8th, 2018 10:00 pm by George Durbin

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 12:01 am
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Tom Newcity
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George Durbin wrote: Hi John!

Ps... Has anyone here used this stuff?





Geo...

Not a new concept in joining wires.  Used this system in the Air Force in the late 60's.  We used it on ground equipment.....don't remember ever using it on aircraft wiring.  It works quite well.  But Geo, would these be small enough to fit into a fan motor housing?

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 12:26 am
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Jeff Jones
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That's kind of what I was wondering. If they'd fit into the housing. I don't really see how it's any different than soldering the 2 wires together and heat shrinking except in that case I guess you also get the mechanical connection as added strength. I've never been able to make a good clean inline splice. I've gotten better but I still tend to end up with a lump.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 02:17 am
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Ryan Blazei
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Seems to me more like a convenience thing than bring new tech. However, it may even have its own place in some situations such as not being able to fit the heat shrink on the wire without shrinking it with the heat of a soldering iron. 

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 02:19 am
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Charlie Forster
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George
I have a neighbor that just bares  the two ends of the wire slides some shrink tube up on the and  pushes the ends together  then slides the shrink tube up over it and shrinks it..
He worked in a trailer factory so  he had access to many sizes of shrink tube.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 02:32 am
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Levi Mevis
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Charlie Forster wrote: George
I have a neighbor that just bares  the two ends of the wire slides some shrink tube up on the and  pushes the ends together  then slides the shrink tube up over it and shrinks it..
He worked in a trailer factory so  he had access to many sizes of shrink tube.

Hey Charlie, my dad is the same way, in regards to getting shrink tubing from work as he works in an RV Factory where they use shrink tubing and butt connections all the time. My dad works for REV RVs in Elkhart, off of CR 6. I don't know if you are familiar with that place or not.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 02:48 am
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George Durbin
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I know that many members are not as steady as they used to be... This is a great solution for those who shake a little... This is not a solution for all applications we have... I am pointing out another arrow that can be used to get the job done...  Shakes, eyesight not so good anymore ect... I dont shake but my eyesight though, is not as good as it used to be...
Geo...

Last edited on Thu Aug 9th, 2018 02:49 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2018 05:00 am
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Charlie Forster
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George
 
You need one of those  big magnifying lights ,
I found one at Good Will and it works wonders for old eyes.
This one sits on the floor and you can position the magnifier where you need.
I think I gave $12.00 for it!!
I wouldn't use the  shrink tube  unless I couldn't solider it first .
It may be ok if there is no flexing or vibration.
 I did find a nice American Beauty  soldering iron and 4  1 lb roles of Solider  this week end at a yard sale.
 The iron is to big for fan work  but good to have on hand.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 04:12 am
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Jan Hendriks
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 Hi ,



Thought ide give it a try ,
                    
  very flexible...
I did manage  to pull apart with a lot of force ..wire ripped ..soldered join was intact .




4 sizes in the box ,  small size not shown ...is that small I didn't notice it ....

red  



Down side     each end of each tube  ,one end has small  hole for inserting wire ,other end is larger   
 large end takes the wire insulation  {cotton wrap}on wire I use , but  not fit in other end 





took a bit of heat /time with this little torch ,,,tried a bigger torch  , I melted the plastic ,before the solder  ..




I can see a use for them here ....
   

cheers 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 05:05 am
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Charlie Forster
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On that cotton wrap something that can help frayed ends is to put a little super glue on the end and glue it down then go on with the rest of your joint.
Yes I use my fingers to form it then finish your joint.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 10:36 am
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Lane Shirey
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Maybe it’s just me, but if I found one of those in a fan that I bought and intended to use regularly, I’d promptly remove it and provide a proper solder joint. I’m not much into quick fixes. If I found these used in a fan, I’d also have to wonder in what other ways the the person short cut the restoration. 

I’m not saying these are bad, but we live in a very humid area. In my opinion, moisture can lead to oxidation of the wires, which leads to heating which can lead to a fire. Not worth saving 5 minutes to do a proper solder joint. 


Just not my cup of tea. I think they’re maybe ok for automotive connections, but for fans, I’m not so sure. 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 10:46 am
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George Durbin
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Lane Shirey wrote: Maybe it’s just me, but if I found one of those in a fan that I bought and intended to use regularly, I’d promptly remove it and provide a proper solder joint. I’m not much into quick fixes. If I found these used in a fan, I’d also have to wonder in what other ways the the person short cut the restoration. 

I’m not saying these are bad, but we live in a very humid area. In my opinion, moisture can lead to oxidation of the wires, which leads to heating which can lead to a fire. Not worth saving 5 minutes to do a proper solder joint. 


Just not my cup of tea. I think they’re maybe ok for automotive connections, but for fans, I’m not so sure. 

Hi Lane!

The point of using this stuff is to keep moisture out of the joint... The ends are sealed when heated. The military uses this stuff in moisture situations and is already proven to be a good connection... Also if your fan is hot enough to melt this solder, the fan will be rolling the smoke out long before there is an issue with this connection... one other thing about solder joints... Doesnt matter what solder you use, if you are inept at soldering anything it doesnt matter what method you use... 

Geo...

Last edited on Fri Aug 17th, 2018 10:52 am by George Durbin

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 01:47 pm
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Charlie Forster
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George Durbin wrote: Lane Shirey wrote: Maybe it’s just me, but if I found one of those in a fan that I bought and intended to use regularly, I’d promptly remove it and provide a proper solder joint. I’m not much into quick fixes. If I found these used in a fan, I’d also have to wonder in what other ways the the person short cut the restoration. 

I’m not saying these are bad, but we live in a very humid area. In my opinion, moisture can lead to oxidation of the wires, which leads to heating which can lead to a fire. Not worth saving 5 minutes to do a proper solder joint. 


Just not my cup of tea. I think they’re maybe ok for automotive connections, but for fans, I’m not so sure. 

Hi Lane!

The point of using this stuff is to keep moisture out of the joint... The ends are sealed when heated. The military uses this stuff in moisture situations and is already proven to be a good connection... Also if your fan is hot enough to melt this solder, the fan will be rolling the smoke out long before there is an issue with this connection... one other thing about solder joints... Doesnt matter what solder you use, if you are inept at soldering anything it doesnt matter what method you use... 

Geo...
Right on George !!!
I pick up all the old soldier  that is clean.
I .like it better than the new stuff and  the solider I get  I store it in air tight containers .

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 02:03 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Charlie,

How does old solder compare to the newer types?

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 05:07 pm
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Lane Shirey
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To each their own.  I'm sticking to traditional solder and shrink tubing on my restorations.  I KNOW my joints will last.  A mechanical connection (twisting) between the wires also enhances the solder joint.  That's not part of this solution.  I think it's the lazy way to do a termination in my opinion.  . 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 05:41 pm
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Charlie Forster
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Chris ,
 The new soldier has  no lead in it!!
The Clinton's stopped the mining of lead  when they were in office .
Some of the new surface mount computer stuff is soldiered with a gold soldier.
Thats why the out of date computers are as hot item now for the scrapers.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 06:03 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Charlie Forster wrote: Chris ,
 The new soldier has  no lead in it!!
The Clinton's stopped the mining of lead  when they were in office .
Some of the new surface mount computer stuff is soldiered with a gold soldier.
Thats why the out of date computers are as hot item now for the scrapers.


I use Kester 44 with 37% lead/ 67% Tin and it is just a few years old. Kester offers lead free but majority says has lead. 

Completely understand why it would be banned for copper water lines but seems like the electrical still has 37-40% 

Last edited on Fri Aug 17th, 2018 06:14 pm by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 06:21 pm
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Tom Newcity
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Lane Shirey wrote:
To each their own.  I'm sticking to traditional solder and shrink tubing on my restorations.  I KNOW my joints will last.  A mechanical connection (twisting) between the wires also enhances the solder joint.  That's not part of this solution.  I think it's the lazy way to do a termination in my opinion.  . As you said Lane "to each their own", and I also prefer the 60/40 tin/lead rosin core solder for all of my connections.  I go through a couple of pounds a year.  This is an Emerson 29646 stator with solder joints staggered to prevent making a bulge that could create clearance problems.  The shrink tubing is 3/16" thin wall.   Hope to do a fan mag article on the process soon. 

Last edited on Fri Aug 17th, 2018 06:22 pm by Tom Newcity

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 09:45 pm
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Lane Shirey
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Looks just like mine Tom, I was also thinking of doing the same article, but I’ll defer to the authority! Can’t wait to read your article. I’m sure I’ll learn a trick or 2. 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 10:34 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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This thread brought up a question I haven't asked before: how do you protect the shrink tubing while you're soldering the ends of the head wire to the stator wires?  In some cases, there's plenty of distance between the solder point and where the headwire exits the motor, but too many times I end up with a situation where the headwire exits about an inch or so from where one or more of the stator wire ends are located.  I've tried holding the wires being soldered with the metal jaws of a "third hand" deal to keep at least some of the heat from transferring down the wire and heating the shrink tubing to the point where it won't go over the solder joint (or won't even move after I get done soldering).  Is this a technique thing, or is some heat shrink tubing more resistant to heat than others?

I've resorted to cutting back a couple inches of the cloth covering on the headwires to give me room to move the shrink tubing back further, but then it looks like crap if the wires exit without the cloth sheathing.  So then I end up using whipping cord to at least make it look better.  Sometimes I get lucky and there's room to wad up the wires inside the housing until the lack of sheathing no longer shows, but it's not the same as having proper length wires.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2018 11:24 pm
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Tom Newcity
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Jim,



It took me a long time and many mistakes before I came up with good system to do this job so that it would not only look good, but also make a safe, effective hook up.  No one system will fit all situations, but this one has worked quite well on the Emersons.  I have already started on the article for our fan mag.  I can also do a demo at the Harrison meet in November, the Mardi Gras meet in February, and the Pig Pickin meet in May.  If there is any interest in a demo, please let me know. 



Tom N

Last edited on Sat Aug 18th, 2018 02:26 am by Tom Newcity

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 01:40 am
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Jim Humphrey
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Tom, I look forward to your article!  I understand no one size fits all, but sometimes one good idea begets another, and before long there's a whole family of good ideas!  And I may well be making it to one of the fall/winter meets, it's easier to convince the wife to go south in the those time frames. Thanks.  Jim

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 02:11 am
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Charlie Forster
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Jim and others
Get some of those hemostats that the doctors use and  you can clamp the shrink tub  at the closest end to the joint.
 If you find some at the flee market get several sizes .
 Some of the shrink tube will start shrinking if you handle it too much.

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 10:48 am
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Lane Shirey
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To keep the shrink tubing from shrinking, I’ve found a clip on heatsink and I have a couple off them. Just clamp onto the wire between the shrink tubing and the joint. Mine are like alligator clips but flat and with no teeth so they absorb as much heat as possible. Helps to blow on the soldered joint to cool it, but only after the solder has solidified. 

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 11:29 am
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Rick Powell
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Lane Shirey wrote: To keep the shrink tubing from shrinking, I’ve found a clip on heatsink and I have a couple off them. Just clamp onto the wire between the shrink tubing and the joint. Mine are like alligator clips but flat and with no teeth so they absorb as much heat as possible. Helps to blow on the soldered joint to cool it, but only after the solder has solidified. 
Seems to me that the initial posting by George illustrating the device eliminates the need to insulate the area to prevent shrinking, it obviously needs to shrink to make it work.  These devices have been used for many years in the marine industry, they prevent the intrusion of salt laiden moisture and hold extremely well under much more extreme conditions than a residential fan can produce, they aren’t a cheap fix by any means.  I generally am old school and solder and cover with cloth electrical tape but when I do use heat shrink I used adhesive lined heat shrink to hold the wires securely and eliminate soldering, leaves a very smooth joint that’s almost impossible to pull apart.

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 04:45 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Thanks guys, I didn't know that adhesive lined heat shrink existed, and hadn't thought of hemostats and the like.  Now, does anyone know if it's possible to set Times New Roman 4 point size as my default setting for these threads?  I get tired of setting it manually every time, or I just forget most of the time.  One of the great problems of the free world, right?

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 07:16 pm
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Lane Shirey
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Rick Powell wrote: Lane Shirey wrote: To keep the shrink tubing from shrinking, I’ve found a clip on heatsink and I have a couple off them. Just clamp onto the wire between the shrink tubing and the joint. Mine are like alligator clips but flat and with no teeth so they absorb as much heat as possible. Helps to blow on the soldered joint to cool it, but only after the solder has solidified. 
Seems to me that the initial posting by George illustrating the device eliminates the need to insulate the area to prevent shrinking, it obviously needs to shrink to make it work.  These devices have been used for many years in the marine industry, they prevent the intrusion of salt laiden moisture and hold extremely well under much more extreme conditions than a residential fan can produce, they aren’t a cheap fix by any means.  I generally am old school and solder and cover with cloth electrical tape but when I do use heat shrink I used adhesive lined heat shrink to hold the wires securely and eliminate soldering, leaves a very smooth joint that’s almost impossible to pull apart.
Jim was referring to conventional soldering / shrink tube method and my reply was to his post, not George’s method. 

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 Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2018 11:02 pm
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Rick Powell
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Lane Shirey wrote: Maybe it’s just me, but if I found one of those in a fan that I bought and intended to use regularly, I’d promptly remove it and provide a proper solder joint. I’m not much into quick fixes. If I found these used in a fan, I’d also have to wonder in what other ways the the person short cut the restoration. 

I’m not saying these are bad, but we live in a very humid area. In my opinion, moisture can lead to oxidation of the wires, which leads to heating which can lead to a fire. Not worth saving 5 minutes to do a proper solder joint. 


Just not my cup of tea. I think they’re maybe ok for automotive connections, but for fans, I’m not so sure. 

Lane this is what I was referencing, they are from my experience excellent, I would not use them on a 100 year old fan strictly from a estectics point of view, rather stay with how they were made.

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