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Emerson S60 Circulator  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2018 03:22 pm
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Dan Foley
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Grabbed this one yesterday, needs some work but it's still in good shape and runs smoothly.  That knocks another fan off my long-time wish list.  I'm glad I was able to bring it home, since I know they don't pop up too often.  Plus it makes up for missing out on the S60 was pretty much two minutes away from where I live.





Last edited on Sat Dec 1st, 2018 03:24 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2018 03:55 pm
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David Allen
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Nice fan. Looks like the switch has been removed and bypassed. I believe this is a very unusual motor, which changes from 4-pole to 8-pole based on the wiring configuration.

Andrew B has one like it. Here is an explanation of the motor, which I am no expert on but try to explain.

https://youtu.be/oPaOEIV5zx4

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 12:17 am
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Dan Foley
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David Allen wrote: Nice fan. Looks like the switch has been removed and bypassed. I believe this is a very unusual motor, which changes from 4-pole to 8-pole based on the wiring configuration.

Andrew B has one like it. Here is an explanation of the motor, which I am no expert on but try to explain.

https://youtu.be/oPaOEIV5zx4

Very interesting, thanks for the information!  And as usual, excellent video too.  

This is most likely one of those motors, it's rated for 1140 RPM on high and 570 on low.  No start/run cap or anything like that.  Right now it's wired to run on high speed, and I'm guessing it must have been set up correctly as it sits right within the rated current draw on the tag.  I'll have to see how it make it run on low speed, and then I'll need to pick up a replacement switch for it.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 01:09 am
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Russ Huber
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Dan Foley wrote: David Allen wrote: Nice fan. Looks like the switch has been removed and bypassed. I believe this is a very unusual motor, which changes from 4-pole to 8-pole based on the wiring configuration.

Andrew B has one like it. Here is an explanation of the motor, which I am no expert on but try to explain.

https://youtu.be/oPaOEIV5zx4

Very interesting, thanks for the information!  And as usual, excellent video too.  

This is most likely one of those motors, it's rated for 1140 RPM on high and 570 on low.  

1140 RPM is a 6 pole residence fan motor speed.  In order to get the 570 RPM low speed through the motor winding it would have to exceed 6 poles.  What do you think, David?

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 01:23 am
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Dan Foley
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I haven't popped the back of the motor off yet, but it seems like the fat black and fat yellow wire go directly to the line cord.  The two wires with red sleeves have continuity between each other, and the red wire has continuity with both as well.  



I can set it up like this and it will spin up to high speed quite fast:



But if I swap those sleeved wires around and just use the upper wire, it doesn't do much of anything.  I can manually spin the blades and it doesn't sound happy at all.  It doesn't seem like the motor is damaged at all, I think it's just a matter of figuring out the right combo for low.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 02:01 am by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 04:42 pm
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Lawrence Smith
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I have the same fan wired to run only on low speed, Bill Fanum just fixed one at doc's with a new style switch this past November. this fan came from a small Christian college By the Kc, KS area, it was used in the music department & was being exchanged for modern equipment. I've ran it for hours with no issues-- just do not know how to correctly wire it for hi speed. 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 05:34 pm
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Russ Huber
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I don't see a capacitor, so I would assume the motor has a start winding and internal centrifugal mechanism?  If so, if you take it to a motor shop, a good motor man should be able to figure out how to wire the motor for 2 speed operation in roughly 1/2 to 3/4s of an hour. I have had this done in the past and coughed up a few bucks. He even did a little diagram and marked the wires for me. It sure beats doing the Tom Edison method trying to save a buck.  I was so cheap I let that circulator sit for over a year even though I could not figure out how to wire it to run.  :D


 


  

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 05:47 pm
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Dan Foley
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Lawrence Smith wrote: I have the same fan wired to run only on low speed, Bill Fanum just fixed one at doc's with a new style switch this past November. this fan came from a small Christian college By the Kc, KS area, it was used in the music department & was being exchanged for modern equipment. I've ran it for hours with no issues-- just do not know how to correctly wire it for hi speed. 


I always like to find out where my fans came from, and this one was from a dance hall in CT.  The blades on yours are absolutely beautiful.  Is there any way you might be able to take a picture of your fan's wiring?  I'd like to get both speeds working for mine, but if I had the choice I'd stick with low speed.  High is just too much for my living space.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 05:52 pm
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Dan Foley
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Russ Huber wrote: I don't see a capacitor, so I would assume the motor has a start winding and internal centrifugal mechanism?  If so, if you take it to a motor shop, a good motor man should be able to figure out how to wire the motor for 2 speed operation in roughly 1/2 to 3/4s of an hour. I have had this done in the past and coughed up a few bucks. He even did a little diagram and marked the wires for me. It sure beats doing the Tom Edison method trying to save a buck.  I was so cheap I let that circulator sit for over a year even though I could not figure out how to wire it to run.  :D


 


  

Definitely no capacitor on this one, and I'm not sure in regards to a centrifugal start switch.  I don't hear any sort of mechanism in the motor when it starts up.  There are a couple motor shops within a reasonable distance.  It's probably a simple solution, too.  I think I've got an idea on how it should be set up, but I just don't want to risk damaging the motor at all.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 05:53 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 06:18 pm
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Russ Huber
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Dan Foley wrote: Russ Huber wrote: I don't see a capacitor, so I would assume the motor has a start winding and internal centrifugal mechanism?  If so, if you take it to a motor shop, a good motor man should be able to figure out how to wire the motor for 2 speed operation in roughly 1/2 to 3/4s of an hour. I have had this done in the past and coughed up a few bucks. He even did a little diagram and marked the wires for me. It sure beats doing the Tom Edison method trying to save a buck.  I was so cheap I let that circulator sit for over a year even though I could not figure out how to wire it to run.  :D


 


  

It's probably a simple solution, too.  I think I've got an idea on how it should be set up, but I just don't want to risk damaging the motor at all.

That is EXACTLY why I took my motor to a motor shop. I asked the motor man to PLEASE help me without taking my first born.  They only charged me 1/2 hour labor.  The biggest problem with motor shops is they have MUCH bigger fish to fry($$$) than a silly little fractional antique/vintage fan motor.   

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 06:21 pm
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Russ Huber
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I bet you have a centrifugal switch and start winding in that thing. Something has to get her to spin and I seriously doubt it is shaded poles. But, as the Dunaway would say....."never say never."   :D

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 06:22 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2018 10:50 pm
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Dan Foley
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Made a little progress and finally convinced the blade to pop off from the rotor shaft.  I find it interesting they threw a little shaft key in there too:








I'm guessing that black blob is similar to the stuff Emerson used in their Silver Swan hubs.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:00 am
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Dan Foley
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Russ Huber wrote: I bet you have a centrifugal switch and start winding in that thing. Something has to get her to spin and I seriously doubt it is shaded poles. But, as the Dunaway would say....."never say never."   :D
It is a centrifugal start!  David Allen provided some helpful information and now I've got it set up for low speed.  Turns out those two wires I put the red sleeves on are used for low.  Just apply power to those and leave the red wire out of the equation, and off she goes!  When it spins down I can hear the internal switch click back into place too.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:10 am
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Levi Mevis
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My guess is that your fan had a two speed Levolier Pull Chain switch wired into the back of the fan, that would most certainly explain the hole in the middle of the back cover of the fan. You should be able to wire it up with a 3 position toggle switch, where center position of the switch is off up is high and down is low.  :D  :dude:

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:38 am
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Russ Huber
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https://www.afcaforum.com/forum1/48469.html









.

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Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:40 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:46 am
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Russ Huber
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Scott Mackay is on the guest listing online today.  It appears he has some experience and skills with this circulator.  

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:48 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:54 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi Mevis wrote: My guess is that your fan had a two speed Levolier Pull Chain switch wired into the back of the fan, that would most certainly explain the hole in the middle of the back cover of the fan. You should be able to wire it up with a 3 position toggle switch, where center position of the switch is off up is high and down is low.  :D  :dude:
3PDT center off.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 04:02 am
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Russ Huber
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Somebody had a small pile of them. No longer available.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/levolier-mcgill-450-3speed-switch-/192391146331?hash=item2ccb67eb5b%3Ag%3AHc4AAOSwGwlaKs7U&nma=true&si=sMxnkjhriNVINYi7ASEwYyLbtTA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 04:04 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 04:12 am
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Russ Huber
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.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 04:24 am
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Andrew Block
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Russ Huber wrote: .
These aren't that complicated. They take a basic 2PDT switch. Levolier made one (I found some), I think its a type 265 offhand.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 05:20 am
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Russ Huber
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Andrew Block wrote: Russ Huber wrote: .
These aren't that complicated. They take a basic 2PDT switch. Levolier made one (I found some), I think its a type 265 offhand.

I made them complicated.  :D  Years ago I used 2 3PDT center off switches in place of the Levoliers on capacitor and centrifugal start 2 speed circulators from Emerson. I tested continuity of the terminals on the Levoliers after each pull and documented it to transfer over to the 3PDT switch. Despite all the excess I scribbled the fans worked when I got done. It was so long ago I can't recall exactly what I did. I just figure it out as I go.  :clap: :D


Being it is easy for you Andrew, Dan sure could use your guidance with the wiring. Your the circulator lover.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 02:02 pm
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Dan Foley
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Thanks for the extra info, Russ!  I wasn't going to disassemble my fan's motor since the bearings are still good, and the start switch functions properly, so it's nice to see the internals.  

I was going to wire it up like this, with a center-off DPDT toggle:


That way the two smaller motor leads will be hooked to L2 on high, and L1 will join with the red wire.  Then on low, each lead will be hooked to L1/L2 respectively and the red will be left open.

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 02:10 pm by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 02:20 pm
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David Allen
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Dan Foley wrote: Thanks for the extra info, Russ!  I wasn't going to disassemble my fan's motor since the bearings are still good, and the start switch functions properly, so it's nice to see the internals.  



I was going to wire it up like this, with a center-off DPDT toggle:



That way the two smaller motor leads will be hooked to L2 on high, and L1 will join with the red wire.  Then on low, each lead will be hooked to L1/L2 respectively and the red will be left open.


Dan, that looks like it would do nicely. Pretty simple as well.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2018 03:24 pm
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Andrew Block
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Here's how I did it with both the toggle and original Levolier.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 01:00 am
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Dan Foley
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Made some progress on cleaning the blades up, I think most of the gunk was cigarette tar.  I'll have to work on the back side of the hub some more with a brush.



Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2018 01:02 am by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 01:03 am
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Levi Mevis
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Those Blades look nice!  :D  :clap:

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 03:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi Mevis wrote:
Those Blades look nice!  :D  :clap:

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Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2018 03:13 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 04:09 am
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Dan Foley
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Levi Mevis wrote: Those Blades look nice!  :D  :clap:
Thanks Levi!  I did some polishing too, I'll probably work on them some more tomorrow before I move on to the other parts.




I posted this on FB too, but does anyone know of a quick way to remove rust from the poles on these particular fans?  I've been using WD40, PB Blaster, and steel wool on mine and it seems to be working.  But if anyone knows of a faster method that won't harm the finish, I'd like to hear it.  Thanks!


Also, love the patent drawings, Russ!  Especially that second one.

Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2018 04:16 am by Dan Foley

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 04:17 am
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Levi Mevis
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On chrome finished items I just use straight #0000 steel wool (That's what I've used on old rusty bike fenders anyways) and then polish it out with Brasso.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2018 07:30 pm
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Dan Foley
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Been making some progress on the pole:




I've been wrapping vinegar soaked paper towels around it, and then slowly removing the rust with crumpled aluminum foil.  Seems to do a nice job without touching the finish on the pole.  There's some minor pitting and stubborn bits of rust, but I think it's looking much better.

Last edited on Fri Dec 7th, 2018 05:31 am by Dan Foley

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