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GE Pancake Survey 1894-1908  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 02:10 pm
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Kim Frank
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It's been about six months since I have asked for your Pancake info for the survey. I've seen quite a few of you posting on the forum about your cake acquisitions, so I hope you will share your fan's information. I believe we have around 500 fans in the survey so far, hopefully more soon. All this information helps with showing patterns in the GE pancake's development.


What I need are the fan's size, type and form letters, serial number, volts/cycles, stick or trunnion, number of struts, number of wings on blade. Is the blade hub cast or stamped brass? Is the cage 10 wire or 8, pierced or wrapped rear ring. If an 1899, does it have a cage badge? If a 1903 model, is the base full rib or half rib? If a 1905 model, is the trunnion stem 5/8ths" or 3/4" diameter? If '06 thru '08, what do the struts look like? Are there wing bolts or brass bolts holding motor to trunnion? Any odd characteristics? I appreciate all of your help with this. You can PM me your information or post it here. Thanks, Kim

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 02:23 pm
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David Kilnapp
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I'll send you all of that information by PM tomorrow Kim. I have five pancakes. If you like, I'll take pictures of all of the motor tags too for your survey. Expect the PM tomorrow.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 03:25 pm
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Kim Frank
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Thank you David

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 11:15 pm
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David Kilnapp
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I just emailed you all the information on my five fans with ten accompanying pictures.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 04:08 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Cakes - - -Hey David, how about posting some photos of your collection?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 03:05 pm
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David Kilnapp
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OK, here you go:1903





1906 or '07





1907 16 "





1900 





1905 (this one was restored by Ted Kaczor and is absolutely magnificent!)





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 Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 07:38 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Your second fan pictured is a 1907 David and identifiable by the unique struts used in 1907.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 07:43 pm
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David Kilnapp
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Thanks Steve.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 04:25 pm
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Kim Frank
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Steve Stephens wrote: Your second fan pictured is a 1907 David and identifiable by the unique struts used in 1907.Serial number places it late 1906. 1907 serial number ranges according to the Prewitt Scripps/Lawrence Erickson survey are 277001-314500.  That strut was introduced with the '06 second variant models. Earliest recorded serial number in the survey for the 2nd variant (Smooth motor) is 2627XX and the latest recorded S/N for a 1st variant '06 model is 2699XX. All models after that serial number are smooth motor models according to the current survey. The brass or steel clamp type struts are seen on 1906 models, along with the newer type strut. Here are the three 1906 12 inch trunnion mount examples in my collection...

Attached Image (viewed 574 times):

IMG_1596.JPG

Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 01:34 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 04:41 pm
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Kim Frank
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On the other hand, your 1903 third variant type AK form C has a serial number placing it just into the serial number range for 1904 (177501-205000). No difference between the two models except for the form letter C and D. .....The 1903 12 inch models type AK form C

Attached Image (viewed 569 times):

IMG_1588.JPG

Last edited on Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 04:47 pm by Kim Frank

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 Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 05:33 pm
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Darrell Koller
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My one and only pancake:
Year: 1904 

Size: 12" 

Type:   

Form:   

SN: 214101 

Volts: 100/115 

Cycles: 60 

Stick/Trunnion: Trunnion 

# Struts: 3 

# Wings: 4 

Stamped/Cast Hub: Stamped 

10/8 Wire Cage: 8 (not original) 

Pierced/Wrapped Rear Ring: Wrapped

Base Type: Half-ribbed 

5/8" or 3/4# diameter trunnion stem: 3/4" 

Wing bolts or Slotted: Winged






Last edited on Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 09:28 pm by Darrell Koller

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 Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 09:09 pm
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Kim Frank
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Thanks Darrell. Your motor tag places your fan well into the 1905 model year. I do see that the base has both a set screw and a thumb screw. That is characteristic of the 1905 model. Can you get a measurement of the trunnion stem going into the base. Wondering if it is 5/8ths inch or 3/4 inch?

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 Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 09:27 pm
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Darrell Koller
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Kim Frank wrote: Thanks Darrell. Your motor tag places your fan well into the 1905 model year. I do see that the base has both a set screw and a thumb screw. That is characteristic of the 1905 model. Can you get a measurement of the trunnion stem going into the base. Wondering if it is 5/8ths inch or 3/4 inch?Hey Kim,
Stem is 3/4"

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 Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 12:13 am
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Kim Frank
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The reason I ask is somewhere around the 210XXX serial number, the trunnion stems changed from 5/8th to 3/4ths inch. I have added all the fans posted so far to the survey. Thanks, keep them coming.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 12:48 am
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David Kilnapp
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I wish I knew 1/10th of what you know Kim. Thanks for the enlightenment.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 02:56 am
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Bob Peshoff
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Kim...here is one I PM'd you about with some more information.  The serial # is (according to the survey) into the 1905 model #'s

1904

12"
Type AK
Form D
S/N 205342
Volts 100-115
60 Cycles
Smaller tag
Trunnion Mount
Wing Bolts
3 Strut
4 Wings
Stamped Brass Hub
8 Wire Pierced Cage
Half Rib Base w/set screw only
Porcelain Switch w/cast mounting tabs
Steel strap on 5 speed regulating coil
>> and the piece de resistance....it has a big knob :)

Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 02:59 pm by Bob Peshoff

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 Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 02:59 am
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Russ Huber
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Kim Frank wrote: What I need are the fan's size, type and form letters, serial number, volts/cycles, stick or trunnion, number of struts, number of wings on blade. Is the blade hub cast or stamped brass? Is the cage 10 wire or 8, pierced or wrapped rear ring. If an 1899, does it have a cage badge? If a 1903 model, is the base full rib or half rib?

12", AK form C, 171952, 100/115 VAC 60 Cycles, trunnion, 3 strut, 4 wing cast hub, (sans original guard), full rib base. 

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 Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 04:52 am
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Bob Peshoff
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1903

12"
Type AB
Form C
S/N 151341
Volts 100-115
60 Cycles
Stick Mount
Full Ribbed Base
4 Strut
4 Wings
Cast Brass Hub
10 Wire Pierced Cage
Porcelain Switch in base
Brass strap on 5 speed regulating coil
Straight strut at 6 o'clock

Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 03:00 pm by Bob Peshoff

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 01:50 am
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Tristan Crider
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1906
12"
S/N 262234
V 100-115
60 cycles
3 Steel struts
4 wings
stamped hub
8 wire guard

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 01:18 pm
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Larry Miceli
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Kim,
I'm sure you already have Blue Belle's information?
(1903, 12", Stick Mount, 1/2 ribbed base)
If not, I'll send the serial number and pictures tonight.
Larry

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 02:24 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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1900 tag




1900 tag 1

Attached Image (viewed 397 times):

1900 tag 3.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 02:25 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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1901 Tag

Attached Image (viewed 398 times):

1901 back.jpg

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 02:26 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Last photos are 1901

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 02:28 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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1901 tag2



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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 08:33 pm
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Kevin Lee Clark
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1903 Pancake Information
Size: 12 inch
Type: AK
Form: E
Serial No. : 203635
Volts: 110/115
Cycles: 60
Trunnion Mount, 3/4 inch
Base: Half Ribbed
Hub: Cast
Wings: 4
Cage: Missing
Struts: All 3 Missing
Brass Wing Bolts
Base has both set screw and thumb screw


Attached Image (viewed 260 times):

482CC5C1-0098-49F7-BDEF-E7DC7C2C4136.jpeg

Last edited on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 08:39 pm by Kevin Lee Clark

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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 08:43 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Kim, what's the deal with Kevin's pancake tag?   Looks like a Form E but there is no such letter and his fan and tag are from 1904 which is Form D.   Maybe a misstamp and, now, not clearly readable.  Early 1904 used a flat brass tag, not the etched tag like Kevin's that is usually seen.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 09:27 pm
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Kevin Lee Clark
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Closer Look. Appears to be an overstamp as on Richard’s fan.

Attached Image (viewed 240 times):

2C21FF77-2C6D-45A7-BA78-00DB7E99C5E5.jpeg

Last edited on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 09:36 pm by Kevin Lee Clark

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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 10:39 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Kevin, does your fan's base have the thumbscrew AND the slotted screw next to it on the base as you see in this photo?   I've always taken the thumbscrew to be a 1905 feature but, with only the slotted screw, from 1904.   Your serial number is very late info the 1904 year, possibly the fan was held over for a 1905 model and the tag stamped E even if there was no "official" Form E in 1905, no form letter at all until about 1913 or 14.


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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 10:47 pm
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Kevin Lee Clark
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Steve,Yes it has both, exactly as in your photo.
Thank you very much for your input.
Kevin

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 Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 11:57 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Kevin Lee Clark wrote: Closer Look. Appears to be an overstamp as on Richard’s fan.HA! If are talking about me, I just read your mind.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 12:01 am
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Richard Daugird
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 Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 12:05 am
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Steve Stephens
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Here is what a 1905 GE motor tag looks like.   Exceptions seem to exist but very few.   Note that there is no "field" in which to stamp a Form letter as they were no longer used in 1905 for almost ten years.



Another 1905 tag with a serial number much closer to yours Kevin.




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 Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 02:19 pm
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Kim Frank
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Not sure what I can add to this but I look at certain criteria for a given model year, along with the tag info, to form an opinion as to what the fan is. Because the "E" overstamp of "D" has shown up now on two 1904 motor tags, I can only assume that they were done in anticipation of 1905. The 1904 visual cues I look for are half ribbed base, single set screw in neck, 8 wire cage, stamped brass hub blade. The motor tag with a s/n under 205XXX, type AB or AK, and form D. Please note that there are exceptions to the s/n's in every year thru 1905 in the survey.

For 1905, I look for a tag that gives only volts, cycles, and serial number. Half ribbed base will have a thumb screw and a set screw, blade and cage same as 1904. Somewhere around s/n 210XXX, the trunnion stem changes from 5/8ths to 3/4 inch. There is also a change to a thumb screw in the trunnion to hold motor position.


The main thing to remember is "Never say never." Steve has pics of a 1903 with all the characteristics of a 1905.


While we are on the subject, all of you collectors who have acquired Pancakes in the last few months, post your information here so it can be added to the survey..... Happy Thanksgiving.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 05:07 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Kim Frank wrote: 

"Never say never.   Steve has pics of a 1903 with all the characteristics of a 1905."













Below, note the thumb screw first used in 1905 together with the slotted set screw also used from 1905 onward to the right.  The placement for the centered 1904 slotted screw has been "filled" with another slotted screw.




from another example this shows the two set screws at the top of the base, first used in 1905 models.




Last edited on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 07:12 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 05:20 pm
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Joel Schmid
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Hey Kim,I’ll post mine as soon as it’s completed.
Getting close.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 03:11 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Just won this, will send tag info - - looks like a 1900?  TYPE UI . . . 



Attached Image (viewed 121 times):

side.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 03:21 am
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Steven P Dempsey
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Is that a 1899 cage on a 1900 Cake?

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 Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 04:44 am
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Steve Stephens
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Is that a 1899 cage on a 1900 Cake?The cage is a 1900 one with the larger rear ring.  1899 rear ring was the same diameter as the front ring.   But the cage sure does look like the early 1899 before the GE badge was used.   Look at the rear of the small open ring and you will see what I think it some remains of solder that once held on the GE badge which must have come detached.  Although I have not removed an early (1899-1900) GE cage badge I think they all had the early small open ring under the badge.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 02:05 pm
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Ted Kaczor
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Sorry Kim for not updating your survey for a such a long time. I'll start with earliest in my collection,

GE CO. Pancake N0. 1536, VOLTS 104, CYCLES 125.
GE CO. Pancake N0.  5433,VOLTS 104, CYCLES 125.
GE CO. Pancake N0. 21533 VOLTS 104, CYCLES 60.FORM E5 TYPE UI.

I'll fallow up with more and more as I get to it. It is not easy to take them down from the shelves with an arthritic hands, and now you have to dust them off and certainly power up and put them back up. 
THANK YOU KIM FOR DOING THIS, it is tremendous task,
It is going to be the most valuable and important document for a Pancake collectors and not only. Should be published as a nice book/brochure printed by our club. AWESOME.  




Last edited on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 08:30 pm by Ted Kaczor

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 Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 07:56 pm
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Joel Schmid
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OK -

My pancake :
1902 TYPE AD Form B - 12 inch, 110 V/60 cycles
serial number = 141724 (Kim prolly already knows this since he supplied my tag - original was missing)
Cage is not original - new repo made by Ted Kaczor




Last edited on Sat Nov 30th, 2019 12:30 am by Joel Schmid

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