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Most Massive 12" & 16" Desk Fans?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 04:30 am
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Richard Daugird
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I was just looking at a 16" pancake that I haven't lifted in quite a while, and dam n these things are heavy. I thought about weighing it, but oh, I forgot there's no switch or speed coil; so it should be even heavier. I'm guessing a 16" Emerson would be up there too, I do have a complete 16" Trojan...Has anyone ever done a weigh-off? I might just bring a scale home from work...

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 07:24 am
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Sean Campbell
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Peerless fans are up there too. Mine weighs in close to 25 pounds.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 10:29 am
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Pete Moulds
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In the middle of restoring an AEG WB3 desk fan from 1905 designed by Peter Behrens. It is incredibly bulky and heavy.
The fan base and motor alone weighs in at 12.3 kilos or 27.11 lbs.

It still needs a front greaser, a switch, a speed coil, a blade AND a 400mm (15.56") diameter cage.

The cage is the one that which Jan Hendriks is building and was shown by him very recently here. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole complete fan will weigh more than 15 kilos (33 lbs).





The motor has a centrifugal start switch in porcelain and brass which itself adds quite a bit of weight.


Last edited on Tue Sep 10th, 2019 10:36 am by Pete Moulds

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 11:57 am
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Kim Frank
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In the GE line, I'd guess the 16 inch GE sidewinder as the heavy weight, but we don't have an example of that model. This 16 inch GE cake weighs in at a hearty 33.6 pounds....



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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 12:21 pm
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Russ Huber
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The unknown 12" brushed AC fan motor weighs in at 30 lbs:D

Attached Image (viewed 511 times):

Unknown.png

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 12:39 pm
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Don Fenton
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Can one surmise the weight reasons being that these fans create a small typhoon when on high and could take off if not weighed down? Just a guess.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 02:56 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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They were made from the materials of the day. If plastics had been around back then, there'd be no fans to collect. I have a 30's foreign fan that's a 360 degree oscillator. It's made from spun aluminum. It stays put because of a lead base plate...

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 04:17 pm
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Kim Frank
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The Fishtail 16 inch has the three cast iron protrusions to keep it from falling on its' face. When GE came out with the 16 inch motor in 1899, it was as a bracket fan with forward swept trunnion. When they made a 16 inch desk fan in 1900, they used that same forward swept trunnion, putting the motor out over the front of the base instead of centered over it. Thus the funny base.....and an extra few pounds.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 04:22 pm
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Steve Stephens
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I would think that a 16" Dayton toilet bowl oscillator would be up there in the heavyweights.
Trojan 5320/51648 weighs 28.5 lbs so I guess my "champ" is the 1901 16" stick pancake at 31.5 pounds.  I can see close to several extra pounds on that crowfoot pancake; larger base with "feet" and a trunnion.    I think that is the same fan I owned early in my collecting days.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 05:03 pm
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George Durbin
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Kim Frank wrote: The Fishtail 16 inch has the three cast iron protrusions to keep it from falling on its' face. When GE came out with the 16 inch motor in 1899, it was as a bracket fan with forward swept trunnion. When they made a 16 inch desk fan in 1900, they used that same forward swept trunnion, putting the motor out over the front of the base instead of centered over it. Thus the funny base.....and an extra few pounds.
When I look at a fan I gain weight! :D :P :shock: :hammer:

geo...

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 05:29 pm
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Russ Huber
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Russ Huber wrote:
The unknown 12" brushed AC fan motor weighs in at 30 lbs:D
The unknown fan was definitely made prior to WW1 material needs. Even the brass brush holders are thick enough to be rifle barrels. :D There is a high probability the fan was manufactured without motor tag and sold wholesale to an agency who marketed it under their name of choice.  AKA the Menominee method of marketing.  

Attached Image (viewed 433 times):

Unkown.png

Last edited on Tue Sep 10th, 2019 05:30 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 05:36 pm
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Pete Moulds
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Kim
Your point on the GE fish tail base is well made.

That suggests that GE had made a whole pile of forward leaning trunnions exclusively for wall mount fans and they hadn't sold as well as they forecast. However the fish tail or duck foot base has a huge wedge of cast iron not just in the tail/foot but across the whole base of the fan. Several pounds of iron.

They must have had a lot of money and work tied up in the excess trunnions to go to the bother of that extra casting work and expense. Surely easier to melt down the excess trunnions and recast them as bases or whatever?

Makes one wonder why GE made such a hash of production forecasting; or was it, I wonder, their invention of the add-on extra to a standard desk fan that allowed the standard desk fan to be modified to a wall mount, making the exclusive wall mount fan a 'one minute wonder'?

Or was the fan market changing with more electricity to private homes where people would move a fan from room to room? This being different to in factories or offices where a fan would be static and was wall mounted to avoid it being knocked over.

Last edited on Tue Sep 10th, 2019 05:40 pm by Pete Moulds

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 06:00 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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My colonial 16" front Oscillator is almost 30 lbs

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 06:01 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Pete Moulds wrote:
Or was the fan market changing with more electricity to private homes where people would move a fan from room to room? This being different to in factories or offices where a fan would be static and was wall mounted to avoid it being knocked over.
That makes perfect sense.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 06:29 pm
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James Henderson
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Russ. That fan has a lot of hallmarks of a Menominee.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 06:32 pm
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James Henderson
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Kim.With your talent you might want to mount a duckbill on the cage.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 06:52 pm
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Kim Frank
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James Henderson wrote: Kim.With your talent you might want to mount a duckbill on the cage.I'd rather someone mount 50 hundred dollar bills to it.....

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 07:20 pm
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Robert Todd
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I thought my new 16" Westy double lever might have a shot at the title, but when I put it on the scales, it only came in at about 27 lbs.  Heavy, but not heavy enough, apparently.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 07:41 pm
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Sean Campbell
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James Henderson wrote: Russ. That fan has a lot of hallmarks of a Menominee.I would agree.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 08:05 pm
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Steve Cunningham
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I’d have to say the Dayton Toilet Bowl is one of the heaviest.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 08:33 pm
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Don Tener
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I just weighed my R&M Gearback and it is 29 lbs 14 oz. Not as heavy as the GE Cake but not light at all.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 10th, 2019 09:44 pm
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Russ Huber
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James Henderson wrote:
Russ. That fan has a lot of hallmarks of a Menominee.
Somebody manufactured them. So far 3 to surface I am aware of. The top example is owned by CK Toh, mine, and Dick Boswell's example below. Menominee bipolar fans 1892-99/00(?) had CCW blade rotation. Menominee images for fan motor models went off the map after CEO Flesheim commit suicide in 1900 and the new CEO Jennings announced the Menominee Zephyr fan motor late 01 to be on the market in 02. The Zephyr was advertised with CW blade rotation. Another hole in Menominee fan motor manufacture is after the fire early 05 that took the old plant. Menominee did set up in Marinette to continue product manufacture until the new plant opened in 07. The universal 8" tab foot did not hit the market until 10 fan motor season.

So the unadvertised fan motor holes in Menominee manufacture are roughly 00-02 and 05-09. 

Attached Image (viewed 340 times):

1.jpg

Last edited on Tue Sep 10th, 2019 09:46 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 12:37 am
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Sean Campbell
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Russ, do you think it’s possible these were manufactured during one of those timeline holes?
Russ Huber wrote:









James Henderson wrote:
Russ. That fan has a lot of hallmarks of a Menominee.
Somebody manufactured them. So far 3 to surface I am aware of. The top example is owned by CK Toh, mine, and Dick Boswell's example below. Menominee bipolar fans 1892-99/00(?) had CCW blade rotation. Menominee images for fan motor models went off the map after CEO Flesheim commit suicide in 1900 and the new CEO Jennings announced the Menominee Zephyr fan motor late 01 to be on the market in 02. The Zephyr was advertised with CW blade rotation. Another hole in Menominee fan motor manufacture is after the fire early 05 that took the old plant. Menominee did set up in Marinette to continue product manufacture until the new plant opened in 07. The universal 8" tab foot did not hit the market until 10 fan motor season.

So the unadvertised fan motor holes in Menominee manufacture are roughly 00-02 and 05-09. 

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 02:20 am
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Russ Huber
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Sean Campbell wrote: Russ, do you think it’s possible these were manufactured during one of those timeline holes?
Russ Huber wrote:









James Henderson wrote:
Russ. That fan has a lot of hallmarks of a Menominee.
Somebody manufactured them. So far 3 to surface I am aware of. The top example is owned by CK Toh, mine, and Dick Boswell's example below. Menominee bipolar fans 1892-99/00(?) had CCW blade rotation. Menominee images for fan motor models went off the map after CEO Flesheim commit suicide in 1900 and the new CEO Jennings announced the Menominee Zephyr fan motor late 01 to be on the market in 02. The Zephyr was advertised with CW blade rotation. Another hole in Menominee fan motor manufacture is after the fire early 05 that took the old plant. Menominee did set up in Marinette to continue product manufacture until the new plant opened in 07. The universal 8" tab foot did not hit the market until 10 fan motor season.

So the unadvertised fan motor holes in Menominee manufacture are roughly 00-02 and 05-09. 


Sorry, there is nothing in stone.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 07:12 am
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Pete Moulds
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Looking at the motor castings that Russ showed, those are huge air bubble imperfections, presumably exposed by bead blasting or something similar.
Never came across imperfections like that in American or European poured castings.
Guessing they had to make the casting that heavy to be sure to have enough wall thickness so the filler wouldn't risk falling right through the bubble cavities.

I have never seen a Menominee fan, ever, so cannot comment from experience but surely Menominee would have better quality control than that?

If they did subcontract to a third party it might have been rural industry foundry start-up somewhere in the boondocks?

The weight and quality of the components remind me of a small computer printer table I bought in 1992 in Russia.

A tank factory, with no government orders during the collapse, decided to fabricate  consumer items to survive.
This table, with a wooden top 20x30", had a frame made from welded angle iron the wall thickness of which must have been easily 1/4"  making it anti-tank shell proof.
It took three people to carry the table in from the car. It was so heavy it eventually cut deep grooves into a carpet. It is probably still sitting defiantly in a land fill somewhere on the outskirts of Moscow.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 11:12 am
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Don Fenton
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I have to say, my 1904 GE 16 in cake just about threw my back out when I took it from the shop to the house. Not sure what it weighs, but let's just say a sheet ton...........and has to rank up there with the heavyweights.




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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 12:51 pm
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Russ Huber
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Pete Moulds wrote: Looking at the motor castings that Russ showed, those are huge air bubble imperfections, presumably exposed by bead blasting or something similar.
Never came across imperfections like that in American or European poured castings.

I have never seen a Menominee fan, ever, so cannot comment from experience but surely Menominee would have better quality control than that?

If they did subcontract to a third party it might have been rural industry foundry start-up somewhere in the boondocks?



I remember a comment made by AFCA member Rick Hoener in long past post regarding the moon like surface of some Fidelity fan castings.  

As a matter of fact I have an 03 12" cake in the pile needing TLC with a hole in the ribbing on the base that passed inspection. Must of been a Monday after a hard weekend for the inspector.  :D

Not many have positive comments of the unknown fans, some consider them down right ugly, but I do know my example is way overbuilt, and runs great on AC current. The fan will not run properly on direct current. The armature was specifically wound to only eat AC. Another thing to ponder is to think of one of the earlier coveted cast iron fans that has its individual components stamped for identification. Even the brush caps on the unknown had a ID stamping. 

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untitled.png

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 01:53 pm
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James Henderson
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John Witts fan guide page 128.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 09:34 pm
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Tom Morel
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My '05 and '06 16" cakes clock in at 34 pounds. Shipping them costs an arm and a leg. Fun fans though.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 12:56 am
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Steve Stephens
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At those weights Tom I wonder if you for got and left your arm or leg inside the fan.   Those weights are quite a bit different from the 31 pounds of my 16" stick 1901 pancake but yours have more parts plus the heavy rear terminals that mine does not have.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 03:25 am
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Russ Huber
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James Henderson wrote: John Witts fan guide page 128.
The unknown fan in John Witt's book on page 128 is just that, unknown. It is listed as a Menominee in his book. With all due respects, if John wishes to come forward and validate his claim the fan is a Menominee, I would love to know the sources of which he obtained this knowledge. 

The unknown fans are viewed as crude, ugly and undesirable by many. But what baffles me is how so many disregard the fact the fan is of such heavy crude construction, it is not a brushed universal motor as John Witt states on page 128. Both mine and Dick Boswell's example only run properly on alternating current. The steel guards are wrapped with wires pierced into rear square stock.

The pole windings of these fans are cloth sheathed. The 1905 GE cakes I once owned had cloth sheathed pole windings. 

 

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clothsheathed.png

Last edited on Thu Sep 12th, 2019 03:33 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 12:19 pm
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Kim Frank
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Tom Morel wrote: My '05 and '06 16" cakes clock in at 34 pounds. Shipping them costs an arm and a leg. Fun fans though.I remember a few years ago, there was an Ebay seller who described his fans as weighing a heavy 22 lbs. I guess that is opposed to a not quite so heavy 21 lbs or a really heavy 23 lbs.....Anyhow, Tom's post made me check a few other GE 16 inch cakes in my collection.  Neither variant of the 1906 fans were as heavy as Tom's (30.2 and 32.2 lbs), but the 1904 surprised me at 33.2 lbs. Then I checked the 1st variant 1903 with the four struts, 10 wire guard, and cast brass blade hub and it checked in at 34.8 pounds. That is 1.2 lbs more than the 1900 16 inch.  I think I can conclude that the 16 inch GE cakes are heavy to pick up.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 09:39 pm
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John Trier
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Here's slightly different tact on this thread.  The title of the thread is "most massive".    Instead of weight, how about size and then the difference between a comparable 12"  to a 16" of the same basic model.   Here are the measurements for this PI-241 and an 1120 Emerson and picture to show how massive the 1120 is, when compared to the PI-241.  Is there a more massive Emerson?  Maybe the 1520 or the 1220?   I assume the yoke would add a little weight but would it be taller?  



Height (top of motor)  is 12" vs. 15 ¼". 
Motor diameter is 5 ⅝"  vs. 7 ⅝"  










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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 09:48 pm
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Sean Campbell
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John, that thing is massive! :shock: How much does that weigh?

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 12:25 am
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John Trier
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Sean Campbell wrote: John, that thing is massive! :shock: How much does that weigh?
On my bathroom scale it came in at 33lbs. 

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 04:56 am
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Jan Hendriks
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Hi,
Just thought I throw a Marelli in the mix, 1920s Ghibli ..16".. :D..
     



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