AFCA Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Restoring an old fan... add a ground wire?

 Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Stan Adams, Rod Rogers
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Restoring an old fan... add a ground wire?  Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 12:01 am
  PMQuoteReply
1st Post
Damien Elder
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Mar 31st, 2020
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
I restored an old Delco model 1500 table fan for a video on my YouTube channel. I was left a comment stating that the fan was unsafe to use because it doesn’t have a ground wire. Should I/is the consensus to add a ground wire to the chassis of the fan when reconditioning? FYI this fan is being used on a GFCI outlet.
Thanks for your replies!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 03:13 am
  PMQuoteReply
2nd Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Someone is being a worry wort, these fans are perfectly safe without a ground attached.
As long as you aren't using the fan in a wet enviroment or have a GFCI (like you mentioned you are using with your fan) there isn't any more of a risk running these fans without a ground wire than running a modern fan (which are also ungrounded) without a ground.

I'm guessing it was someone from the EU, which those people think that putting a ground wire on everthing makes it safer (even though their household current they use is actually even more unsafe than our 110v AC here in the US).

The Europeans ruin everything antique/vintage electrical wise because they think that a 1950s radio needs a ground wire to be "safe" to run (even though they weren't originally grounded when they were brand new) same for antique and vintage fans they think that they need to be grounded to make them "safe" to operate even though they weren't grounded to begin with and there isn't anything about antique fans that would be unsafe to run that they would need to ground it to make it safer, except to make themselves feel safe.

Hope this helps, and also its always your decision to choose whether or not to add a ground wire to your fan, but that's my 2 cents. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 04:18 am
  PMQuoteReply
3rd Post
David Northam
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Thu Jan 5th, 2006
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Status: 
Offline
Definitely no need to add a ground wire!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 10:33 am
  PMQuoteReply
4th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Nothing wrong with wanting to ground these fans if you want the little extra "feel good". :)

Fans I run all day and night het grounded. The ground wire just needs to be attached to part of the metal frame.

Here I put the ground terminal on the screw that holds the switch in, which goes into the iron base, and subsequently the rest of the fan's iron. :)

Antique style grounded plugs aren't very nice relative to real antique two prong plugs, but do the job nicely.
I have four grounded fans used every day unsupervised. Keep in mind though, these have been completely restored and/electrically and mechanically overhauled.

28646 - living room(used to be)








27666 - bedside fan - 8-16hr a day.







28646 - Wherever big fan.







Was it necessary? No, not really. Was it much trouble to do? No. Does it make the fans a tiny bit safer? Yes

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 12:38 pm
  PMQuoteReply
5th Post
Damien Elder
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Mar 31st, 2020
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 01:34 pm
  PMQuoteReply
6th Post
Stan Adams
Super Moderator


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Houston, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
If it is going through a GFI, a ground wire is unnecessary & in older motors will often cause a nuisance trip of the GFI due to the inductive capacitance induced into the frame. Some motors are fine with it, some are not including modern motors. Some GFIs are also overly sensitive. The GFI on my wife's hair dryer pops nearly every other time she turns off the fan in the bathroom, but the GFI the fan is plugged into does not. You also have a lot of older breaker panels which share a neutral & a ground on the same bus bar. This also creates issues.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 02:29 pm
  PMQuoteReply
7th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!
There's a video on YouTube from a YouTube called Technology Connections and the guy on there discusses the US electrical system and compares it to the European electrical system and he actually makes many good points in there including the one I make about how the Europeans are way too overly cautious about their electrical appliances to the point that they switch every outlet that they know an appliance like a toaster or coffee maker is going to be plugged into rather than just unplugging it.If you want a link to the video I can post it here.

Last edited on Tue Jul 28th, 2020 02:30 pm by Levi Mevis

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 04:40 pm
  PMQuoteReply
8th Post
Michael Rathberger
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Energy is more expensive in Europe so they tend to fully shut stuff down. Almost everything uses something now even when off.

I would think a polarized plug and correct hookup might be more important, but then I'm no expert. I do know I've been buzzed in a basement with a fan before. I think Tim Marks did a writeup on it...

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 05:11 pm
  PMQuoteReply
9th Post
Damien Elder
Guest
 

Joined: Tue Mar 31st, 2020
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Levi Mevis wrote: Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!
There's a video on YouTube from a YouTube called Technology Connections and the guy on there discusses the US electrical system and compares it to the European electrical system and he actually makes many good points in there including the one I make about how the Europeans are way too overly cautious about their electrical appliances to the point that they switch every outlet that they know an appliance like a toaster or coffee maker is going to be plugged into rather than just unplugging it.If you want a link to the video I can post it here.

Hi Levi,

Thank you, If you provide the link I’ll definitely check it out. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 05:56 pm
  PMQuoteReply
10th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Michael Rathberger wrote: Energy is more expensive in Europe so they tend to fully shut stuff down. Almost everything uses something now even when off.

I would think a polarized plug and correct hookup might be more important, but then I'm no expert. I do know I've been buzzed in a basement with a fan before. I think Tim Marks did a writeup on it...
Yeah, but then that's why you unplug it!   :hammer:
I never said the Europeans were smart when it came to using appliances or electricity or energy, (the main reason why energy costs so much over there is because they use the metric system.) 

Check it, in Europe they charge per liter for gas or diesel there, which if you do the math for what a liter is compared to a gallon, a liter is much more than a gallon so for every gallon a gas tank has (the average car has a 12 gallon tank) it takes 3.8 liters to fill that tank, meaning that the average car gas tank in Europe (12 gallons) is about 45 liters and when you charge $8 a liter for gas or diesel it really adds up, along the lines of of about $360 to fill up your average gas tank in Europe! 
And you think $40 to fill up up a gas tank here in the US is bad! 

Which it isn't any wonder why Europeans don't drive much. 

See,  That's why the US is holding on to the Imperial measurement standard because everything costs more in Metric! 


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 06:05 pm
  PMQuoteReply
11th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Damien Elder wrote: Levi Mevis wrote: Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!
There's a video on YouTube from a YouTube called Technology Connections and the guy on there discusses the US electrical system and compares it to the European electrical system and he actually makes many good points in there including the one I make about how the Europeans are way too overly cautious about their electrical appliances to the point that they switch every outlet that they know an appliance like a toaster or coffee maker is going to be plugged into rather than just unplugging it.If you want a link to the video I can post it here.

Hi Levi,

Thank you, If you provide the link I’ll definitely check it out. 
Here's the video: 




This guy has a snarky and dry sense of humor so I hope you can handle that.  :D:P

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 06:13 pm
  PMQuoteReply
12th Post
Michael Rathberger
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
"a liter is much more than a gallon so for every gallon a gas tank has (the average car has a 12 gallon tank) it takes 3.8 liters to fill that tank, meaning that the average car gas tank in Europe (12 gallons) is about 45 liters"

Thanks you for that lesson Levi, I'll try not to forget it.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 06:17 pm
  PMQuoteReply
13th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Michael Rathberger wrote: "a liter is much more than a gallon so for every gallon a gas tank has (the average car has a 12 gallon tank) it takes 3.8 liters to fill that tank, meaning that the average car gas tank in Europe (12 gallons) is about 45 liters"

Thanks you for that lesson Levi, I'll try not to forget it.
Are you being serious or are you being sarcastic Mike?  :wondering:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 06:22 pm
  PMQuoteReply
14th Post
Michael Rathberger
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Serious, I'll never forget it...

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 06:42 pm
  PMQuoteReply
15th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Michael Rathberger wrote: Serious, I'll never forget it...Ok. Thanks.
But yeah my sister went out with a guy who lived in the Netherlands for about 5 years and that's how I found out about them charging $8 per liter for gas (and about $5 per liter for diesel, for some reason diesel is cheaper in Europe than it is in the US and I heard it's because the EU pushed harder for Diesel cars than the US did because of the overall fuel economy advantage diesel engines have over gasoline engines). 

And so I did the math and figured out that when you charge per liter (metric) for gas rather than per gallon like we do, you end up paying much more for gas, that's why I think that the US is holding out on converting to metric like everyone else in the world has. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:10 pm
  PMQuoteReply
16th Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!

Thank you for the kind words, Damien!

My house is a 70s ranch with original wiring setup. A ground can give definite piece of mind, even though the safety factor may be 5%-10%. Good enough to put the wire on for unattended fans. PLUS! I like the look of the triple twist headwire and matching twisted pair line wire with a function(I guess I could use triple twist and not ground it. Haha).

Cheers?

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:22 pm
  PMQuoteReply
17th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Alex Rushing wrote: Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!

Thank you for the kind words, Damien!

My house is a 70s ranch with original wiring setup. A ground can give definite piece of mind, even though the safety factor may be 5%-10%. Good enough to put the wire on for unattended fans. PLUS! I like the look of the triple twist headwire and matching twisted pair line wire with a function(I guess I could use triple twist and not ground it. Haha).

Cheers?
Hi Alex, just so you know Grounded outlets weren't a construction standard in most American states until the 1980s because my parents live in a prefab Bi-Level home that was built in 1962 and the upstairs in the house had grounded outlets and the lower level had ungrounded outlets (two prong outlets) and the original 100 Amp fuse box that was in the house when my parents bought the house in 1993 was NOT grounded, when they upgraded their 100 amp service panel to a 200 amp service panel, the electrician had to add a ground to it.
Just a fun fact, also modern box and table fans aren't grounded (unless they are intended for commercial use) so if ungrounded plugs are still good for modern fans then it's still good for antique fans. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:22 pm
  PMQuoteReply
18th Post
Jim Kovar
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Feb 21st, 2011
Location:  Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Status: 
Offline
Michael Rathberger wrote:Energy is more expensive in Europe...
Levi Mevis wrote:[That's] ...the main reason why energy costs so much over there is because they use the metric system.
The main reason?  Really?

The metric system,...
             ...a reason at all?  :wondering:

https://wikipedia.org/Arbitrary_unit


Beam me up, Scotty.   :shock:

Last edited on Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:29 pm by Jim Kovar

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:49 pm
  PMQuoteReply
19th Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Jim Kovar wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote:Energy is more expensive in Europe...
Levi Mevis wrote:[That's] ...the main reason why energy costs so much over there is because they use the metric system.
The main reason?  Really?

The metric system,...
                a reason at all?  :wondering:

https://wikipedia.org/Arbitrary_unit


Yes Kovar it is the main reason, again read my comments and explanations and go over my math if you want. 
And yes I'm familiar with the Arbitrary Unit which was created by Oliver Smoot back in the 1940s at MIT which was based on his height which was 5' 7".  

Which the point of it being was that anyone could come up with a measurement based on any random length (or this case height) and say that it's a unit of measurement, it was actually supposed to poke fun at the fact that in the US we don't have any standard unit of measurement for anything, because in the science and medical fields in the US we use various forms of the metric system, and in the construction and manufacturing fields we used Imperial measurement (at that time) and in weights and measurements we used Imperial and metric depending on the application, so on and so forth.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 09:28 pm
  PMQuoteReply
20th Post
Tom Newcity
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Nov 27th, 2005
Location: Fort Smith
Status: 
Offline
Damien,
Even with a polarized plug be it 2 or 3 prong, the most important thing is to ensure that the High side of the AC goes to the switch and the Neutral to the other connection.  A third wire for ground has always baffled me because if you go to your circuit breaker box you will see that Neutral and Ground are the same.  But I am easily baffled.  And if you decide to work on old radios, be especially cautious as many used what is called a "hot chassi".  

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 09:39 pm
  PMQuoteReply
21st Post
Levi Mevis
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Feb 24th, 2015
Location: Elkhart, Indiana USA
Status: 
Offline
Tom Newcity wrote: Damien,
Even with a polarized plug be it 2 or 3 prong, the most important thing is to ensure that the High side of the AC goes to the switch and the Neutral to the other connection.  A third wire for ground has always baffled me because if you go to your circuit breaker box you will see that Neutral and Ground are the same.  But I am easily baffled.  And if you decide to work on old radios, be especially cautious as many used what is called a "hot chassi".  

My point exactly, the Europeans are way too Safety-centric for their own good, to the point of being arbitrary about it. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 09:57 pm
  PMQuoteReply
22nd Post
Alex Rushing
AFCA Member


Joined: Thu Dec 14th, 2006
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA
Status: 
Offline
Levi Mevis wrote: Alex Rushing wrote: Damien Elder wrote: Levi you hit the nail right on the head! The guy was in fact from the EU. I have a three prong on order and may swap it as this fan is for my fiancé and I’d like the piece of mind. I don’t really see it adding much real world safety though because of the GFCI already in play. I really appreciate the sanity check from you all.
Beautiful fans Alex! That is the exact point I was going to use for ground if I do add one.

Thank you everyone! Great bunch of people here on AFCA!

Thank you for the kind words, Damien!

My house is a 70s ranch with original wiring setup. A ground can give definite piece of mind, even though the safety factor may be 5%-10%. Good enough to put the wire on for unattended fans. PLUS! I like the look of the triple twist headwire and matching twisted pair line wire with a function(I guess I could use triple twist and not ground it. Haha).

Cheers?
Hi Alex, just so you know Grounded outlets weren't a construction standard in most American states until the 1980s because my parents live in a prefab Bi-Level home that was built in 1962 and the upstairs in the house had grounded outlets and the lower level had ungrounded outlets (two prong outlets) and the original 100 Amp fuse box that was in the house when my parents bought the house in 1993 was NOT grounded, when they upgraded their 100 amp service panel to a 200 amp service panel, the electrician had to add a ground to it.
Just a fun fact, also modern box and table fans aren't grounded (unless they are intended for commercial use) so if ungrounded plugs are still good for modern fans then it's still good for antique fans. 

Very interesting! Thank you for the info! :)

My father was a contractor(working as a mechanic at the time) and rewired the house with the most advanced setup available in the 70s. Grounded outlets and switch boxes, and an early style home breaker box with 15A light breakers and 20A outlet breakers. As he built on, the box was outfitted with different style breakers, so it looks a bit strange. There is a double throw 40A breaker for the 600sq. ft. Workshop(4 car garage) he built on, just for the outlets. And he had 220V ran out there for his table saw(not there anymore) and an air compressor.
Only thing I don't like is I have to find aluminum romex compatible switches and outlets when I replace them.  :hammer:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 11:20 pm
  PMQuoteReply
23rd Post
Paul Carmody
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Feb 25th, 2018
Location: Waco, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
Tom Newcity wrote: Damien,
Even with a polarized plug be it 2 or 3 prong, the most important thing is to ensure that the High side of the AC goes to the switch and the Neutral to the other connection.  
That's a good thing about the 3 prong, its always right..The repro plug prongs are the same size.
I'm doing a fan for my daughter now and I'm grounding it.Not everyone has GFCI plugs.
False sense of security?Practical? It don't hurt anything.
My house still has,had the 2 prongs that I'm in the process of putting GFCI plugs in all.Just for people safety.

Last edited on Wed Jul 29th, 2020 07:46 am by Paul Carmody

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2020 12:57 am
  PMQuoteReply
24th Post
Michael Rathberger
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Paul Carmody wrote: Tom Newcity wrote: Damien,
Even with a polarized plug be it 2 or 3 prong, the most important thing is to ensure that the High side of the AC goes to the switch and the Neutral to the other connection.  
That's a good thing about the 3 prong, its always right..The repro plug prongs are the same size.
I'm doing a fan for my daughter now and I'm grounding it.Not everyone has GFI plugs.
False sense of security?Practical? It don't hurt anything.
My house still has,had the 2 prongs that I'm in the process of putting GFI plugs in all.Just for people safety.
I think the key is the connection to the fan. The outlet doesn't guarantee you've connected the hot right...

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2020 01:54 am
  PMQuoteReply
25th Post
Frank McCormack
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Mon Jan 13th, 2020
Location: SAINT LOUIS, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Combining the old with the new is a good idea in my book.  The fans are pretty well isolated when they windings and switches don't fail as originally designed.  And then that darned age thing comes into play.  A winding insulation fails and allows the wire to touch the metal case of the fan and it becomes energized.  An unsuspecting person touches the fan and becomes the path to ground and yowch!  or worse.  The simple fix for this is to unplug, flip the plug over and plug it back in which changes the fan case to neutral (ground). I can tell you stories of old refrigerators that I fixed from biting someone with this method.

For fans that I plan to use at a minimum I like to use a polarized 2 prong plug and add a 4A fuse to the hot side before the switch.  The hot side is the smaller prong on the plug, the neutral is the bigger one. I'm bigger about those fans being safe first. 

The 3 prong old looking plug that alex shows above with the extra ground is a fantastic idea.  The idea of the ground is to provide a path for an electrical failure like I outlined above and force the circuit breaker to trip.  I like to add a fuse to prevent a failure of an 80 year old fan from causing a fire.  The broke fuse is a clear indication to look for a problem.  You still have to connect the hot to the same side of the plug and the switch. 

GFCIs are great to prevent shock.  They sense if the difference between the hot and neutral is greater than 5 milliamps like when you touch a live appliance and become a path for the hot to ground.  My house is old and doesn't have the 3rd ground wire.  But the national electrical code allows you to replace any outlet with a GFCI to give you the ability to plug in a 3 wire plug and be safe.  I'm putting together a power feed board for fan testing which will include a GFCI.  However, GFCIs don't stop a fan from letting out the smoke if a winding shorts so I would still recommend a fuse even with the GFCI.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2020 07:11 am
  PMQuoteReply
26th Post
Paul Carmody
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Feb 25th, 2018
Location: Waco, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
Michael Rathberger wrote: I think the key is the connection to the fan. The outlet doesn't guarantee you've connected the hot right...I make sure.On the two prongs that are not polarized I put a red dot on the hot side.If I'm not sure at first I use a no contact tester and put to the head wire when off.If there's power flip the plug.The switch just completes the circuit.It don't care which way it comes from.Or do like mentioned and unplug it when not in use.I'm no expert,it's just how I do it.
Frank.Where did you put the fuse?In the base?.I bought some fuses and holders but I thought it may be overkill.I went with .30 amp over startup amp with a slow blow fuse.I may still use one now that you brought it up.Its my daughter after all.
On mine I'm not that picky.I've been bit before.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2020 11:52 pm
  PMQuoteReply
27th Post
Paul Carmody
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Feb 25th, 2018
Location: Waco, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
Damien Elder wrote: I restored an old Delco model 1500 table fan for a video on my YouTube channel. I was left a comment stating that the fan was unsafe to use because it doesn’t have a ground wire. Should I/is the consensus to add a ground wire to the chassis of the fan when reconditioning? FYI this fan is being used on a GFCI outlet.
Thanks for your replies!
Is that your pale blue fan.I looked for it on youtube.If so that is a very nice fan.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2020 01:03 am
  PMQuoteReply
28th Post
Frank McCormack
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Mon Jan 13th, 2020
Location: SAINT LOUIS, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Paul, I put them in the base.  Using crimp connectors makes for a clean reliable install.

I know that a 4amp fast blow is oversized per the code, but I would rather not have nuisance fuse blows and if my winding would have a problem it will still take the fan offline pretty fast with minimal damage.  And no fire since things wont have time to heat up.  And does not ruin the looks since its hidden. If I were to have a home fire, I really don't want it because of my hobby. 



Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2020 01:20 am
  PMQuoteReply
29th Post
Paul Carmody
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Feb 25th, 2018
Location: Waco, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
Thanks Frank for the reply.I think your right about blowing fuse with minimal damage.Unlike the sensitive electronics of today.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2020 12:55 pm
  PMQuoteReply
30th Post
Michael Rathberger
AFCA Member


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
Paul Carmody wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: I think the key is the connection to the fan. The outlet doesn't guarantee you've connected the hot right...I make sure.On the two prongs that are not polarized I put a red dot on the hot side.If I'm not sure at first I use a no contact tester and put to the head wire when off.If there's power flip the plug.The switch just completes the circuit.It don't care which way it comes from.Or do like mentioned and unplug it when not in use.I'm no expert,it's just how I do it.

Frank.Where did you put the fuse?In the base?.I bought some fuses and holders but I thought it may be overkill.I went with .30 amp over startup amp with a slow blow fuse.I may still use one now that you brought it up.Its my daughter after all.

On mine I'm not that picky.I've been bit before.


Thanks, how to confirm you have it right is what I was looking for...

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Jul 31st, 2020 08:05 am
  PMQuoteReply
31st Post
Pete Moulds
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location: Bumi Serpong Damai, Jakarta, Indonesia
Status: 
Offline
Levi, oil costs the same in Europe as everywhere else. Brent costs maybe a dollar a barrel more than WTI (West Texas Intermediate) because of quality issues.It is because we tax motor fuels heavily to make sure people don't waste them that it is more expensive.That's why we have smaller more efficient engines too.

On the subject of metrication, why would the measurement system used by the rest of the world make things more expensive?
Being born and brought up in the UK, my childhood was using Imperial Units and we were also dogged with the most ghastly monetary system which came straight from the Roman conquest. 1 pound consists of 20 shillings, each shilling consists of 12 pennies.
Can you imagine adding up a column of money the amounts written in pounds, shillings and pence?   The money was abbreviated to L.s.d. The 'L' is for Librium the source of the British monetary symbol £ and was originally 1lb of silver.The 'S' (literally splittings) and the smallest part of silver being Denarius.

Then we used a similarly ghastly system of length measurements 'miles, each into 8 furlongs, each into 40 rods/poles/perches, each into 51/2 yards, each into 3 foot, each into 12 inch and then  fractions thereof. For some weird reason we didn't use the obvious decimal system.

Two huge burdens were lifted, decimal currency was, after 130 years of effort, introduced in 1971 whilst we went metric officially in 1965 but in all honesty the process of conversion is still ongoing somewhat. We still have road signs in miles per hour and petrol/gasoline was much slower to convert to measuring in litres but has happened now. Kilograms for food shopping were initially resisted too but the conversion is now pretty complete.
However we quickly dropped the ghastly non-system of measurements of length and went to metres with a sigh of relief where all subdivisions were made in the decimal system.
We also, with relief, largely dropped the bizarre mess of screw sizes though this took longer. Vintage British cars still require a set of standard SAE wrenches but these are harder to find nowadays.

So I started working full time in 1969 and quickly went metric in the international oil companies I worked for but was shocked on moving in the US in 1978, to find the situation was reversed. You guys are in a time warp and to all intents and purposes a lone stand-out clinging to non-metric measurements.

You, Burma (Myanmar) and Liberia.
It gets worse guys.
Wikipedia,"Some sources now identify Liberia as metric, and the government of Myanmar has stated that the country would metricate with a goal of completion by 2019. Both Myanmar and Liberia are substantially metric countries, trading internationally in metric units."
The beauty of the metric system is firstly its simplicity and it's less error-prone and secondly the inter-relationship of the units. I litre of water, for example, weighs exactly I kilogram.
The oil industry has been forced to adopt a hybrid system such as running 9 5/8" casing to a depth of 1,234.56 metres. This merely because the API (American Petroleum Institute) sets standard casing sizes.
Errors in these measurement conversions can get expensive.
Wikipedia again,
"Mars Probe Lost Due to Simple Math Error. NASA lost its $125-million Mars Climate Orbiter because spacecraft engineers failed to convert from English to metric measurements when exchanging vital data before the craft was launched, space agency officials said Thursday. ... In a sense, the spacecraft was lost in translation.1 Oct 1999".
Now, don't get me wrong, I love working on old British made fans, Veritys in particular, and I get nostalgic for the old systems but I do recognise that we need to standardise a world system of measurements for efficiency. In the old days things were not standardised. In the UK we had 20 fluid ounces in a pint whilst you guys, probably more logically, said there were 16 fluid ounces in your pint, akin to the 16 ounces in a pound; although they bear no direct relationship unlike litres do to kilos. Thus the Imperial Gallon we used to buy 'petrol' in, was a 20% larger volume than a US Gallon.
And finally your retention of fractions of an inch in measurements. SAE wrench sizes ascending in 1/16" such as
1/4, 5/16, 11/32, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, 3/4, 13/16, 7/8, 15/16, 1" is learnable but difficult and prone to error and adding fractions more complicated than adding millimetres or even decimals thereof.
By not going  metric and acting globally in this matter, the US is complicating their international operations. The oil industry is forced into a hybrid system as is international aviation operation and I am sure there are many other such examples.
No doubt I will endure a burst of indignant riposte for this message. I have to say that I am not at all anti-American, two of my children are US born citizens and I have lived there happily for many years. I have also been lucky enough to live around the world and now semi-retired at 75 and living happily in a country I enjoy. However, the more I experience the more I find it difficult to understand this stubborn resistance to standardise your measurement system with everybody else's.


Last edited on Fri Jul 31st, 2020 08:09 am by Pete Moulds

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2020 03:31 pm
  PMQuoteReply
32nd Post
Frank McCormack
AFCA Member
 

Joined: Mon Jan 13th, 2020
Location: SAINT LOUIS, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Pete, I'm an older engineer that likes metric units, cant convince the younger engineers to use metric in designs.  Part of it that they have a difficult time finding steel and pipe in metric units. Part of it is the shop people prefer inches. Problems happen when some devices require metric mounting dimensions. 

My toolbox has SAE and metric.  My favorite concession in all of this is that my metric sockets are powered by my 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch ratchets.  I never really thought about it but does the rest of the world use metric drives for their sockets? 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2020 05:05 pm
  PMQuoteReply
33rd Post
Pete Moulds
AFCA Member


Joined: Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location: Bumi Serpong Damai, Jakarta, Indonesia
Status: 
Offline
Frank, yes I believe they do primarily use ratchets in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2". This is because they were invented in the USA.These are 'legacy products' and this, I guess, is inevitable. 
I have US, German, Japanese and British sockets sets all of which have drive sizes in fractions of inches. When I buy sockets at home here in Indonesia they are in standard drive sizes and I know they will fit my ratchets in the workshop.
Never have seen any metric ratchet drives sizes, even in France and Russia.

The western world has been a leader in certain technologies for many years and I am not arguing to overturn these customs just for the purposes of eradicating old imperial measurements when they have become standards.
I am anxious to make this point which I am glad you brought up.

In aviation internationally,  English is the official language of air traffic control as I understand and talk of flight levels generally in thousands of feet I believe.

Metrication shouldn't be seen as a defeat in some kind of competition. The metric system has clear advantages over the imperial system is many aspects. Simplicity, logical units, ease of use, ease of up-scaling and linkage between properties being measured and these advantages have led to it becoming global in use.

In a world of global products it makes sense to use the system when it is appropriate; especially if you want to sell your produce for export.

In the UK, we decided that it was uneconomical to change all road sign speed limits to kph so we stick with miles. That's OK but now we build cars in metric units.
Believe me I know about all standard component sizes or legacy dimensions and the problem they present.

The international oil production business has been living now for decades with such a dual system. Many components are in inches historically yet lengths and depths are in metres. It is possible to mix them provided you clearly mark each unit and remain aware of the differences.
Pete

Back To Top PMQuoteReply  

 Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2020 08:20 pm
  PMQuoteReply
34th Post
Paul Carmody
AFCA Member


Joined: Sun Feb 25th, 2018
Location: Waco, Texas USA
Status: 
Offline
All I know is I can look at an SAE bolt,nut  and know EXACTLY what size wrench,socket to grab.With metric I have to make more than one trip, or just go ahead and bring the whole set.

Last edited on Sat Aug 1st, 2020 08:20 pm by Paul Carmody

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

Current time is 10:12 am  
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Restoring an old fan... add a ground wire? Top



Beige Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2608 seconds (22% database + 78% PHP). 52 queries executed.