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new old Tank  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 03:36 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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This arrived packed super well, only the seller got carried away with disassembly after difficultyremoving the blade (set screw was hidden) Spray bombed black - - perhaps the brass is protected?
Tag is stamped "136" The cage is super straight, no breaks or bends.Has 3 different style acorn nuts.
I have ordered the banner & nuts from Darryl.




Attached Image (viewed 311 times):

tank tag painted.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 03:38 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Another Westy Tank Tag (reference image) - Later model?



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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:03 pm
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Alex Rushing
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Another Westy Tank Tag (reference image) - Later model?



You've got yourself an early Tank! Congrats!The pinned tags are on the '05 and '06 models. In '07 they were screwed on. '08 they lost the solid front cage ring. '07 and '08, and later on have the 1906 patent. '05 and '06 seasons have the 1893 patent.
Yours probably didn't have the cage banner. Check the ring for evidence of one.

Last edited on Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:05 pm by Alex Rushing

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:23 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Put back together for a "B4" series of shots - - The rotor/bearings are out of alignment however - - any tips appreciated


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Tank Front B4.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:23 pm
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Tom Morel
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1907 had a riveted tag with the 1893 patent date, no 1906 date. The OP's fan should have a banner as nearly all Westinghouse tanks do. The fan he posted is probably a 1907 model.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:24 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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B4


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Tank back B4.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:27 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Thanks - - no evidence of a banner on the ring - - that says me some $$

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:42 pm
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Russ Huber
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Thanks - - no evidence of a banner on the ring - - that saves me some $$
Sorry to rain on your parade.  :D






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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 04:50 pm
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Noah Britt
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Does anyone have an example of a wall mount tank like in that ad? I would love to see a living example!

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 05:11 pm
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Jim Humphrey
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Steven, I think you've got a 1907 model there, as Tom mentioned above.  It has the reinforced yoke as opposed to the smooth yoke on the 1905/1906 models.  Also, 1906 would have been 104 volts, while 1905 would have been a smaller diameter motor I think.  Also, I think the 1907 would have had a stencil badge.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 07:21 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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Ah, what's a few years, I had an R&M 1404 for years with no badge & it looked "normal" to me.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 07:24 pm
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Sean Campbell
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When did they start putting a date stamp on the back of the hub?

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 08:16 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Sean Campbell wrote: When did they start putting a date stamp on the back of the hub?At least by 1911 as I have several fans with an 11.   And, after looking through my files, I have what looks to be a 9 date code:



Other details as I think I know them (please let me know if you have other info,  Tank dating is not terribly precise):
  -  Last stencil cage badge 1909, first solid badge 1910.   I have not seen a cage banner on any of the 1905 small motor tanks but have a 1906? 16" small motor single speed tank with the stencil badge and S-wires protruding from center ring.
  -  First screwed on motor tag 1908; previously riveted on
  -  1893 patent motor tag used into 1908 model, at least on the R&M rebadged fans which were introduced for 1908.   I have one with the 93 tag and another with the 06 patent tag.   1907 will have the 93 patent tag.
  -   Solid center cage ring:   On 1905 models and maybe early 1906 the S-wires appear (protrude through) on the inside of the center ring, 1906 they don't.   Last solid ring either 1907 or 08 (I have a 1908 R&M rebadge with solid center ring and 93 patent tag)  -  Unreinforced trunnion used on 1905-06 tanks but I think the reinforcement was added later in 1906.
  -  Base on 1905 and 06 is a lower base (in profile) than 1907 and later tanks.

Last edited on Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 08:33 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 08:36 pm
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Alex Rushing
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Sorry Steven. Appears I was one year off. '07 and not '06.
What's a couple of years(or one year in this case)? I ask myself that question everytime I see "mine is older" posts. Like any hobby, people want to differentiate their specimen from other's examples. Westinghouse Tanks are a source of serious contention regarding what happened in what year.

Though, there have been topics with '06 versions with a reinforced yoke being shown and/or discussed, many still hold the reinforcement came on 1907.
The '06 had a different base('07 wasn't as flat) that I forgot about. Was going off some great info on my Tank shared in the topic before it turned into a paint technique topic. Should have touched back on the thread and not tried going off memory.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 08:52 pm
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David Kilnapp
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Hi Steve. Do you mind saying what you paid?

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 10:09 pm
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Russ Huber
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Jim Humphrey wrote: Also, 1906 would have been 104 volts.
:D












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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 10:18 pm
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Russ Huber
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1907





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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 10:25 pm
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Russ Huber
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It appears you could purchase your AC tanks ranging 100-115 VAC and 200-230 VAC from 25-133 cycles.

Hey Jim, you better get your a$$ in gear driving around the country if you want to collect them all.  :D

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 11:35 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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I paid 200 - - I guessed the parts were worth that much if it arrived destroyed.I Ordered & cancelled that banner from Darryl, so it's on again!! I need to look at that code on my other 2 Tanks (R&M & VICTOR)

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 01:58 am
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Sean Campbell
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A vast majority of the 1906 tanks seem to have the non reinforced (more fragile) yoke. Personally I think the '06 examples with the reinforced yoke have it as a later replacement from a damaged original yoke. It would explain why there are a few with the newer yoke design. I also don't see any documentation saying it DIDN'T happen that way.  :D

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 04:14 am
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Steve Stephens
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What you say makes sense Sean.   I don't know if any type of actual survey has been done but that could help us understand some aspects of tanks better.  
I have two 12" 1906 tanks, an AC with old style trunnion and a DC with the reinforced trunnion.
My 16" is an oddball single speed, small motor 60679 and 104 volts which, from the Style No. would seem to be from 1906 and not 1905 but it has the small motor of the 1905 tanks.

How fun it would be to see a large Westy tank timeline.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 06:19 am
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Russ Huber
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Steve Stephens wrote: What you say makes sense Sean.   I don't know if any type of actual survey has been done but that could help us understand some aspects of tanks better.

How fun it would be to see a large Westy tank timeline.

You know you can't trust dated images offer after the introduction of the fan motor, be it electrical trade or catalogue.


All one can go by is dated electrical trade/catalogue specific fan motor information that offers details of the fan motor component modifications or changes. And you have to use discretion with that information.  :D












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80127_122008_300000000.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 12:07 pm
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David Kilnapp
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That's darn good deal for $200!

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 12:17 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: I paid 200 - - I guessed the parts were worth that much if it arrived destroyed.I Ordered & cancelled that banner from Darryl, so it's on again!! I need to look at that code on my other 2 Tanks (R&M & VICTOR)
How did you negotiate a discount and free shipping and taxes after the auction ended? I need to learn this trick.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 12:20 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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My R&M Branded Tank has an 11 stamp on the blade, the westy & VICTOR have none.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 01:35 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: My R&M Branded Tank has an 11 stamp on the blade, the westy & VICTOR have none.

R&M had their own non-oscillator desk fan for 1911, the List 1404, which did not use Westinghouse parts.   Could it be that some leftover R&M fans made by Westinghouse were still being sold off?   Does that fan, Steven, have a 1906 patent motor tag?   Possibly the blade has been changed?

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 03:25 pm
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Steven P Dempsey
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This is my R&M - - has an 11 stamped on the back of the hub, tag is screwed on, reinforced yokeThe blade below is a spare (end was cut off) & also has no stamp - so not sure about the dating via blade stamps, 
seems like that would be the first part to be replaced in a hundred + years.




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Tank Blade.jpg

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