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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 10:54 pm
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Joey Katona
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Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 12:00 am
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Mike Kearns
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Tough to get around The Man, Joey. The IRS would audit in a heartbeat, and the club would likely lose it's non-profit status. Believe me, I understand the frustration with EBay and auction premiums cutting into seller profits, who then taxed on top of it all.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 12:11 am
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Steve Cunningham
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We used to do that. Mass chais. People got upset that someone outbid them. Visitors would find a fan and auction it on the site. Unless bidding can be anonymous, it’ll just cause more misery.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 12:16 am
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Jim Kovar
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Anyone want to volunteer to manage

the dispute resolution department?





         Not me!

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 01:10 am
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John Trier
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Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 


Selling on eBay is becoming less and less attractive.   Here's what another field of collecting is offering.  Exorbitant eBay fees are illustrated. 




http://compleatsurveyor.com/ConsignmentCheaper/TCSoptions.html

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 03:55 am
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William Dunlap
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It may be more trouble than it's worth. The BST is already something of an auction site as the asking price is often not the selling price due to a number of different types of transactions that go on here.
So, maybe don't mess with success?
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Bill

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 11:47 am
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Michael Rathberger
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Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 
The BST page is a dead end until the board quits getting involved in disputes. It should simply be open selling with caveat emptor as its only rule.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 01:26 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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There are many ways in which this could add to moderators plates of responsibility and they have limited time donated to the forum.

If the selling price requirement were lifted and members only allowed to post items looking to sell with private offerings solicited then that could serve a similar purpose while making this side of the forum more active. Limit to paid members to weed out drive by appraisers. This would allow more offerings to post and not hold any seller obligated to members which are known to micromanage with conditions when offerings are currently posted. Kept private, less feelings are hurt.

Fans offered at meets are not always priced and open to upfront offers. Similar concept should apply here. There are many people here that would like to post fans, parts, lots just to free up space and if received an offer likely to let them go. It would generate activity through more private sales, connect more people to develop new relationships, and help distribute items to collectors.

I feel resources should be allocated to making this site more accessible as recently the server is often down. With an auction comes rules, enforcement issues, hurt feelings, and a lot more inconvenience not to mention the non profit status of the group.

Dropping required asking price should greatly be considered. At least try it out for 6 months. Only competition we are up against is Ebay and nothing further to loose. Unfortunately a few people here feel that if they do not have option to be the first to post or send PM to an offering with posted price then they could miss out and now have this policy along with members playing sheriff.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 05:37 pm
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Andrew Block
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I wouldn't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Everyone complains about Ebay, but show me a diverse auction gallery that pulls in a international viewership that doesn't charge 25-30% premium.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 08:58 pm
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Steve Sherwood
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 
The BST page is a dead end until the board quits getting involved in disputes. It should simply be open selling with caveat emptor as its only rule.
Michael, there are very few disputes on the BST, most disputes between members are private sales outside the BST and there are very few of those. Maybe one or two per year, if that many. Bill Fanum is in charge of resolutions  between AFCA members only. FYI.

Last edited on Sun Oct 25th, 2020 09:08 pm by Steve Sherwood

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 10:10 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Steve Sherwood wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 
The BST page is a dead end until the board quits getting involved in disputes. It should simply be open selling with caveat emptor as its only rule.
Michael, there are very few disputes on the BST, most disputes between members are private sales outside the BST and there are very few of those. Maybe one or two per year, if that many. Bill Fanum is in charge of resolutions  between AFCA members only. FYI.
Then why is it continually brought up as a reason to not open it up and eliminate the inane rules? For 15 years I've heard the same reason --disputes-- as the excuse for not changing.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 11:34 pm
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Steve Sherwood
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Steve Sherwood wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 
The BST page is a dead end until the board quits getting involved in disputes. It should simply be open selling with caveat emptor as its only rule.
Michael, there are very few disputes on the BST, most disputes between members are private sales outside the BST and there are very few of those. Maybe one or two per year, if that many. Bill Fanum is in charge of resolutions  between AFCA members only. FYI.
Then why is it continually brought up as a reason to not open it up and eliminate the inane rules? For 15 years I've heard the same reason --disputes-- as the excuse for not changing.
The only rule is to post a price. Deals are negotiated off the forum all the time after someone has posted a price. Please explain what exactly you think should be done? I am on the Board of Directors and am open for suggestions. We are currently trying to make improvements to the website. I know there have been issues, we are working on it.  Please feel free to contact me personally about any issues with the AFCA website or any other issues. I will do want I can.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 07:43 am
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Joey Katona
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Steve Cunningham wrote: We used to do that. Mass chais. People got upset that someone outbid them. Visitors would find a fan and auction it on the site. Unless bidding can be anonymous, it’ll just cause more misery.
That must have been before my time as a member, my apologies. 

It would only be open to members because I can only imagine the issues with it open to the public. Anonymous would for sure be the way to go if possible but I have no idea what it would take to setup.  

My thoughts were geared more towards the way they run the auctions/posting on Facebook. You just post an item and exact time the auction will end. Members bid in comment being that comment posted show exact time. It doesn’t sound like many are in favor so no biggie, was just curious. 

Last edited on Mon Oct 26th, 2020 07:46 am by Joey Katona

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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 11:18 am
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Michael Rathberger
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Steve, I think for one we should remove the price requirement. Joey's original idea was an "auction." I like the idea but a simpler approach is: "I have this for sale, enquire if interested." Too many people here assume if they're the first to respond it's their item. There's a lot of variables that go into it. Distance to ship, someone close may enquire so no shipping, the person who responded first may be a known pain in the neck, someone else may respond that the seller has dealt with before and is more comfortable with, etc. It's the sellers discretion who to sell to, not who is first.



The other problem I have with the BST is the sewing circle that feels they HAVE to for some reason respond to BST posts. There should be no responses allowed except the original poster. I have done it myself so it's a little like the pot calling the kettle cold. 



A concrete example. 15-20 years ago I got rid of a round base staghorn. Nice fan, but it was one of those fans that I just couldn't like. The first person to respond had all these "conditions" to the sale. It was exhausting the demands he was making. The next day, a nice gentleman from Georgia responded and said "where do I send the money?" I sold to the second guy, it was a minor issue with the first guy and I got a PM from Steve. I explained it, but still, anyone here would have done the same thing but it did make it a poor experience.



Last edited on Mon Oct 26th, 2020 11:21 am by Michael Rathberger

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 04:37 pm
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Don Tener
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Steve, I think for one we should remove the price requirement. Joey's original idea was an "auction." I like the idea but a simpler approach is: "I have this for sale, enquire if interested." Too many people here assume if they're the first to respond it's their item. There's a lot of variables that go into it. Distance to ship, someone close may enquire so no shipping, the person who responded first may be a known pain in the neck, someone else may respond that the seller has dealt with before and is more comfortable with, etc. It's the sellers discretion who to sell to, not who is first.



The other problem I have with the BST is the sewing circle that feels they HAVE to for some reason respond to BST posts. There should be no responses allowed except the original poster. I have done it myself so it's a little like the pot calling the kettle cold. 



A concrete example. 15-20 years ago I got rid of a round base staghorn. Nice fan, but it was one of those fans that I just couldn't like. The first person to respond had all these "conditions" to the sale. It was exhausting the demands he was making. The next day, a nice gentleman from Georgia responded and said "where do I send the money?" I sold to the second guy, it was a minor issue with the first guy and I got a PM from Steve. I explained it, but still, anyone here would have done the same thing but it did make it a poor experience.



I agree with Michael. If you removed the price requirement and allowed people to PM you their offer I think that would work. But who knows how it would go. If it didn't work go back to the way it was.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 05:42 pm
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Joey Katona
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John Trier wrote: Joey Katona wrote: Just curious if anyone has given any thought to an auction section on the AFCA  but setup like groups have on Facebook? Is it something that the AFCA group would even consider? I personally think that eBay, auction sites and even local auction premiums, fees and taxes have gotten a little ridiculous. We could even do a small percentage 2-3% or set fee for each auction that the AFCA collects. Just an idea because I’d rather send money to the AFCA then some jerk(eBay, auctioneer) that could give two shits about packing or the item in general. 


Selling on eBay is becoming less and less attractive.   Here's what another field of collecting is offering.  Exorbitant eBay fees are illustrated. 




http://compleatsurveyor.com/ConsignmentCheaper/TCSoptions.html


This seems counterproductive, the 7.5,10,15 or whatever percent is complete BS. I’m also curious how he’s selling something with that much value, collecting 15% and the tax man catches zero of it from the buyer, seller or auctioneer. But hey, I’m wrong about 14,376 times a day so I very well could be wrong on this one. 

I’ve also only scratched the surface when it comes to seeing the quality work that plenty of the member can do. The countless hours involved with each project has got to be an insane number. So to watch someone take 10+ percent of there hard work is not something that sits well with me. But hey, to each his own. 

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 05:51 pm
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Joey Katona
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Don Tener wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: Steve, I think for one we should remove the price requirement. Joey's original idea was an "auction." I like the idea but a simpler approach is: "I have this for sale, enquire if interested." Too many people here assume if they're the first to respond it's their item. There's a lot of variables that go into it. Distance to ship, someone close may enquire so no shipping, the person who responded first may be a known pain in the neck, someone else may respond that the seller has dealt with before and is more comfortable with, etc. It's the sellers discretion who to sell to, not who is first.



The other problem I have with the BST is the sewing circle that feels they HAVE to for some reason respond to BST posts. There should be no responses allowed except the original poster. I have done it myself so it's a little like the pot calling the kettle cold. 



A concrete example. 15-20 years ago I got rid of a round base staghorn. Nice fan, but it was one of those fans that I just couldn't like. The first person to respond had all these "conditions" to the sale. It was exhausting the demands he was making. The next day, a nice gentleman from Georgia responded and said "where do I send the money?" I sold to the second guy, it was a minor issue with the first guy and I got a PM from Steve. I explained it, but still, anyone here would have done the same thing but it did make it a poor experience.



I agree with Michael. If you removed the price requirement and allowed people to PM you their offer I think that would work. But who knows how it would go. If it didn't work go back to the way it was.

I think the price requirement is actually a good thing. 
I’m sure you’ve posted something for sale in your life with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive. To much drama from those situations, I buy/sell items weekly and I 110% refuse to price someone’s item. If they don’t know what they want for it, why is it for sale? The #1 thing anyone thinks about before they sell something is “what’s the value”. 

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 05:57 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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"I think the price requirement is actually a good thing. 
I’m sure you’ve posted something for sale in your life with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive. To much drama from those situations, I buy/sell items weekly and I 110% refuse to price someone’s item. If they don’t know what they want for it, why is it for sale? The #1 thing anyone thinks about before they sell something is “what’s the value”.

You may have noticed the rather pristine 1900 pancake sitting on one of my shelves Joey? The one with the perfect patina? Funny you say this because I received a call one day from a older gentleman that said he had some fans. I went to look at them and he asked me point blank "Make an offer and if I think it's fair I'll take it."

I made an offer instead of walking away.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 06:16 pm
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Joey Katona
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Michael Rathberger wrote: "I think the price requirement is actually a good thing. 
I’m sure you’ve posted something for sale in your life with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive. To much drama from those situations, I buy/sell items weekly and I 110% refuse to price someone’s item. If they don’t know what they want for it, why is it for sale? The #1 thing anyone thinks about before they sell something is “what’s the value”.

You may have noticed the rather pristine 1900 pancake sitting on one of my shelves Joey? The one with the perfect patina? Funny you say this because I received a call one day from a older gentleman that said he had some fans. I went to look at them and he asked me point blank "Make an offer and if I think it's fair I'll take it."

I made an offer instead of walking away.

Mike, it’s hard to forget that fan. I guess it’s something I struggle with and avoid at all cost.  

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 06:55 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Regardless the BST serves more of a general inquiry to locate members that can provide.

In terms of selling, most members turn directly to Ebay. With that said the speed numbers and plates I provide have only been advertised here and at Geoffs. In the past 18 months or so close to 400 sets of speed numbers provided and maybe 50 plates. People do look here, just need more content.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 09:08 pm
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Don Tener
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Joey Katona wrote: Don Tener wrote: Michael Rathberger wrote: Steve, I think for one we should remove the price requirement. Joey's original idea was an "auction." I like the idea but a simpler approach is: "I have this for sale, enquire if interested." Too many people here assume if they're the first to respond it's their item. There's a lot of variables that go into it. Distance to ship, someone close may enquire so no shipping, the person who responded first may be a known pain in the neck, someone else may respond that the seller has dealt with before and is more comfortable with, etc. It's the sellers discretion who to sell to, not who is first.



The other problem I have with the BST is the sewing circle that feels they HAVE to for some reason respond to BST posts. There should be no responses allowed except the original poster. I have done it myself so it's a little like the pot calling the kettle cold. 



A concrete example. 15-20 years ago I got rid of a round base staghorn. Nice fan, but it was one of those fans that I just couldn't like. The first person to respond had all these "conditions" to the sale. It was exhausting the demands he was making. The next day, a nice gentleman from Georgia responded and said "where do I send the money?" I sold to the second guy, it was a minor issue with the first guy and I got a PM from Steve. I explained it, but still, anyone here would have done the same thing but it did make it a poor experience.



I agree with Michael. If you removed the price requirement and allowed people to PM you their offer I think that would work. But who knows how it would go. If it didn't work go back to the way it was.

I think the price requirement is actually a good thing. 
I’m sure you’ve posted something for sale in your life with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive. To much drama from those situations, I buy/sell items weekly and I 110% refuse to price someone’s item. If they don’t know what they want for it, why is it for sale? The #1 thing anyone thinks about before they sell something is “what’s the value”. 

Okay but I still think it should be tried. Just because you guys have posted something with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive then you don't have to do that. But what's wrong with letting others that might want to do it "Do it" If you don't like it, don't do it. Why restrict others?

Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2020 09:09 pm by Don Tener

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 10:05 pm
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Steve Sherwood
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OK, I will bring up the make offer issue at the next board meeting, but you could still post a price if you want. I think offers would have to sent by Private Messaging and not made public or else it would be like an auction. Also the auction idea is probably not happening. To many issues for that. Sellers would want reserves on items. No one could monitor the auctions and keep track of issues.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 11:45 pm
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Joey Katona
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A real easy way to work with/around the price requirement.

Example
I decide to sell 5 used head wires off of fans I’ve cleaned up. Asking $4000.....OBO

Another Example
I’ve decided to sell my Noxall Dolphin fan, asking $100,000...OBO

And I say all this with NO disrespect to anyone or the AFCA, I’m active on the site daily and have met/helped/worked with and mostly importantly received endless help from a lot of great people here.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2020 11:54 pm
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Joey Katona
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As for the auction style, that’s AOK. I think it’s kind of surprising/disappointing that a small group of collectors cant run a comment style auction without “having issues” and would also need to be “monitored”. But yet the entire world of Facebook manages to accomplish it.

It’s not difficult to be an honest and respectful human.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2020 02:08 am
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Chris A. Campbell
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.

Last edited on Wed Oct 28th, 2020 03:37 am by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2020 11:29 am
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Michael Rathberger
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Okay but I still think it should be tried. Just because you guys have posted something with a “Make Offer” price, then received a crap offer that actually is somewhat offensive then you don't have to do that. But what's wrong with letting others that might want to do it "Do it" If you don't like it, don't do it. Why restrict others?


I just want to deal with people who make my life easier, even if I could get more elsewhere. I don't want to be tied to the first person to respond to a post nor hear about it if I move past and onto someone else. The ability to post "I have this/these for sale" accomplishes that for me.


An auction site does not, but I can see how it may benefit the club so am in favor. Anything to generate some real interest in the BST page.








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 Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2020 08:37 pm
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Joey Katona
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I just want to deal with people who make my life easier, even if I could get more elsewhere. I don't want to be tied to the first person to respond to a post nor hear about it if I move past and onto someone else. The ability to post "I have this/these for sale" accomplishes that for me.


An auction site does not, but I can see how it may benefit the club so am in favor. Anything to generate some real interest in the BST page.









100% agreed! 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2020 11:08 pm
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Steve Sherwood
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Joey Katona wrote: As for the auction style, that’s AOK. I think it’s kind of surprising/disappointing that a small group of collectors cant run a comment style auction without “having issues” and would also need to be “monitored”. But yet the entire world of Facebook manages to accomplish it.

It’s not difficult to be an honest and respectful human.
I quit some of the fan collector forums on Facebook due to people arguing and making rude comments  about pricing and sales. Some guy the other day had a rusty dime store fan for make an offer. Someone offered $10 and then it started when the owner said it was worth more. I have seen the type of behavior  on coin op forums on Facebook. Facebook does not moderate any of these forums, it's up to the person who runs the forum. I also am not aware of any auction type forums on Facebook.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2020 05:46 pm
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Richard Daugird
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Joey hit the nail on the head, ask for a bit more than you want, "Or best offer". Problem solved. I have bought many item by offering less than the asking price. If they don't accept my offer, no harm, no foul.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2020 10:45 pm
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Steve Sherwood
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I have sent offers many times on the BST, sometimes the accept, some times they don't.

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