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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Crocker Wheeler coil rewind held
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Crocker Wheeler coil rewind held | |||||
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| Crocker Wheeler coil rewind held | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 02:25 am |
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1st Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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I was very lucky to acquire one of my dream fans a few months back. Was happy to find that the parts it does have are intact. The armature tested fine and the brush assemblies complete. I just finished building the switch using photos from the site for reference. Now I would like to wind some coils for it. I've done rewinds before and can handle replicating what's in front of me, but from scratch is a different beast. I've tried a few online coil calculators but usually end up more confused than I started. I'm hoping someone could give me some insight on where to begin. Thank you  
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 04:45 am |
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2nd Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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CW moved from New York City to Ampere, NJ in 1894.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 07:32 am |
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3rd Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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I have one in the museum. Maybe you can get Kim to get the wire info off mine.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 01:42 pm |
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4th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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Thanks Steve, if I can get an ohm reading off one of the coils that would be a huge help. I believe it's 18awg, I had a tiny piece of wire left in the brush connection but I'm not 100% on that.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 02:07 pm |
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5th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member 
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Reach out to Bill Fanum. He helped me rewind this Crocker Wheeler motor to power up a dumbwaiter.... Attached Image (viewed 345 times):
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 02:20 pm |
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6th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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Will do, thank you Kim
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 06:36 pm |
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7th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Steve Cunningham wrote: CW moved from New York City to Ampere, NJ in 1894. CW moved from NY to Ampere sometime between April and May of 93. Attached Image (viewed 306 times):
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 06:40 pm |
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8th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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BTW... the CW concerned burned to the ground with exception of a building used for Japanning in 95.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18th, 2021 08:37 pm |
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9th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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So would I be safe to say this motor is 93-95? Thank you Russ, for your wealth of information. Last edited on Thu Feb 18th, 2021 08:38 pm by Chris Krenke |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 01:34 am |
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10th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Chris Krenke wrote: So would I be safe to say this motor is 93-95? Thank you Russ, for your wealth of information. As early as 94 spanning into the 20th. I think I am fairly on target?
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:17 am |
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11th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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1898. 1/12th and 1/8th HP bracket fans were in the exhibit. Attached Image (viewed 259 times):
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:22 am |
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12th Post |
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Steve Butler AFCA Member 
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Chris, your fan is beyond cool. Best of luck with the restoration. 👍👍👍
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:51 am |
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13th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member 
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Hi, Chris. Since your motor's info plate states a speed (1800),... I'm pretty sure your C-W is a shunt wound motor.  A shunt wound motor will have a relatively constant speed with a varying load. The speed of a series wound motor will change with a varying load.  
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:58 am |
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14th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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Thank you everyone for your compliments and information. Last edited on Fri Feb 19th, 2021 03:08 am by Chris Krenke |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 03:03 am |
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15th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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I believe these were courtesy of Russ on a previous post 
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 03:10 am |
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16th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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https://afcaforum.com/forum1/15526.html
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 04:29 am |
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17th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 05:13 am |
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18th Post |
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Jim Kovar AFCA Member
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 Chris, I think your motor's field coils can be switched to either series or parallel. The field coils, either in series or parallel, are in parallel with the armature, thus you have a shunt motor.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 08:31 am |
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19th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member 
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I know this is not a big deal but isn't the switch on the wrong side of the motor? It can easily be moved to the other side by just moving/switching the cast iron coil bars. Or did they put the switch on ether side. This is the first one I saw like this? Last edited on Fri Feb 19th, 2021 08:32 am by Don Tener |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2021 02:36 pm |
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20th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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Jim, thank you for explanation. I've still got a lot to learn on the electrical side. Don, I believe you are correct about the switch. Every photo/catalog I've seen the switch was on the other side. This will be fixed when I break it down for the rewind as will the tag orientation. Thank you all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 02:52 pm |
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21st Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Here's the C-W after the rewind and Bill figuring out the hook up for the field coils... Attached Image (viewed 149 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 02:54 pm |
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22nd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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And all dressed out..... Attached Image (viewed 147 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 02:55 pm |
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23rd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Bill figured this thing out in about 15 minutes and had it running like a new motor... Attached Image (viewed 146 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 02:57 pm |
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24th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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It's now ready to power the Dumbwaiter, once everything else is finished, painted, or polished Attached Image (viewed 142 times):
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 04:34 pm |
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25th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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That's a beautiful restoration as always Kim. I really enjoy these old bipolar motors, something about all the exposed terminals. Didn't live long being careless back then. I plan on doing a similar rewind on the coils. Modern magnet wire with a cotton rope covering. I sourced some double cotton covered 18 awg but just doesn't look the same as they came originally. Original almost looks rope covered.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 07:05 pm |
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26th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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I restored that motor back in 2010. One coil had an open that I was able to find and fix, but the wire was sketchy. The motor ran but didn't have a lot of torque, plus I put the wiring hookup back as it was and it never seemed right. Bill Fanum came down for the Sept. Museum meet and figured the thing out in no time. He had me wind both coils with 28 ga magnet wire and then he started hooking everything up. He had it going in no time at all. He is a genius with these motors. Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2021 07:06 pm by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 07:23 pm |
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27th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member
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Chris Krenke wrote: That's a beautiful restoration as always Kim. I really enjoy these old bipolar motors, something about all the exposed terminals. Didn't live long being careless back then. I plan on doing a similar rewind on the coils. Modern magnet wire with a cotton rope covering. I sourced some double cotton covered 18 awg but just doesn't look the same as they came originally. Original almost looks rope covered.I just sent you a PM about this. Kim just answered the question I was wondering about. He used 28awg. What looks like rope is rope, no wire in it, It is just a protective covering. I think you are going to need smaller AWG wire. If 23awg will work I have a LOT of it and would be happy to ship you some.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2021 07:34 pm |
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28th Post |
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Don Tener AFCA Member
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I also have quite a bit of 30 and 34 awg. So if we can find out exactly what they used on these I may have what you need
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2021 02:18 am |
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29th Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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It's 28awg. Thanks Kim. It'll take 827 feet to get the 54 ohms of a known good coil. Thanks Don. I have my starting point.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2021 12:43 pm |
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30th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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I thought the same thing about the ohms and figured I only needed around 1760 feet of magnet wire for the same reading. It didn't produce much of a magnetic field. When Bill came to the shop, he had me splice onto what was already on the coil and fill it up with wire. Ohms are somewhere around 280 per coil now and the motor is strong running. Give Bill a call is my advice for what to do on these old motors.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2021 03:13 pm |
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31st Post |
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Chris Krenke AFCA Member
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Thanks for the heads up Kim. I've learned over the course of this, that the turns are just as important if not more then the ohm readings. More turns=more magnetism. After enough math to make my head hurt, I learned 28awg is the best starting point. It would take a pound of 26awg to get the 54ohms. Too much to fit on the coil. It should only take .4 pounds of the 28awg. I can fit that with room to add as I see fit. I did try to PM Bill a few days ago, I will phone him. Thanks for all the help, I feel like I have a much better understanding and a good starting point after all this.
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