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 Posted: Tue Apr 6th, 2021 11:58 am
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Michael Rathberger
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I've had this bouncing around for 15 or 20 years. Finally spent a few minutes on it while I decide what to do with it long term. Added a quick headwire to it as the other had disintegrated. Did not really feel like pulling it all apart so did a good enough on it for testing. Will pay Rick to do it right if he's at a meet in the future. These Emerson switches suck, a really poor design but managed to get it to test by adding a spacer for now.  Long term it'll have to be fixed right. Changed out the brushes with a new set and she hits on all 3 speeds. The blade on it is pretty cool. Nice little brass hub turned down to fit. Blows a wide arc of air.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 6th, 2021 05:49 pm
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Jim Kovar
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:clap:   Wow, that's purty!, Michael.   :D

Have a close-up of the motor tag?

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 Posted: Tue Apr 6th, 2021 10:45 pm
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Anthony Lindsey
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Nice,  i like the DC motors.   I could just be me but they sure do seem to run smooth.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 12:52 am
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Brice Nagelmaker
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NICE! i'd love to see the tag too. i have a 32 or 36 dc vorty i never messed with.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:45 am
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Russ Huber
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Delco-Light Plant Demonstration with Appliances - YouTube

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 07:47 am
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Alex Rushing
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That is awesome, Michael!

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 10:45 am
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Michael Rathberger
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...

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 10:49 am
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Michael Rathberger
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Both fans are headed to the museum soon along with a couple others and one very nice GE DC item which will be added to Kim's collection. 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 02:36 pm
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Russ Huber
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The 19044 hit the market in 14.  Emerson data in the INFO section supports the 19044 on the market 1914-16.  The Electrical Appliance catalogue page shown below dates 16. I would think with little doubt this was Emerson's first 8" 32 volt stationary farm plant fan.

Mike, any clue as to the field inside the housing of that fan? Are the windings mounted on a cast field, or laminated field?














Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 02:38 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:31 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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An educated guess would say cast iron, taking a peak under the fan does not show a laminated core. That said, not had it apart. I know one collector sent his 19045 out for a spray job, they may be able to answer better.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:49 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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All Emerson DCs have cast iron field. The laminate core is limited to Northwind. Aside from brush holders and oilers everything is unique to DC vs Northwind. 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:51 pm
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote: An educated guess would say cast iron, taking a peak under the fan does not show a laminated core. That said, not had it apart. I know one collector sent his 19045 out for a spray job, they may be able to answer better.

1916 was the only year exempting the Northwind 8" that Emerson had both the 8" 19044 and 19645 9" stationary models sharing the market.

If the 9" 19045 (introduced in 17) you speak of is for 32 VDC than the field info matters. If it is a 110 VDC it will with little doubt it would be a cast field. 


Emerson was one of the few that made DC fan motors well into the 20th with a cast field. I would love to know if you 32 VDC is in fact wound on a cast field. 

























Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:52 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 03:55 pm
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Russ Huber
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: All Emerson DCs have cast iron field. The laminate core is limited to Northwind. Aside from brush holders and oilers everything is unique to DC vs Northwind. 
Do you have a Emerson 19044 or 19045 32 VDC to validate that? 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:15 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Russ Huber wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote: All Emerson DCs have cast iron field. The laminate core is limited to Northwind. Aside from brush holders and oilers everything is unique to DC vs Northwind. 
Do you have a Emerson 19044 or 19045 32 VDC to validate that? 

I cant imagine Emerson designing a special laminate core for 32v

110vDC

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:22 pm
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Russ Huber
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote: All Emerson DCs have cast iron field. The laminate core is limited to Northwind. Aside from brush holders and oilers everything is unique to DC vs Northwind. 
Do you have a Emerson 19044 or 19045 32 VDC to validate that? 

I cant imagine Emerson designing a special laminate core for 32v

110vDC

I can't either, but there is only one way to know for sure, that is what I am seeking. Mike holds the key to that if he is up to it before it goes to the museum.  :D  That little 8" 32 VDC is rare as hens teeth.


I don't think(?) your going to find a 19045 32 VDC. Emerson with very little doubt introduced the 10" universal motor desk and bracket Northwind for either circuit and farm plant use at 32 VDC in 17. 

Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:22 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:38 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Russ Huber wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Chris A. Campbell wrote: All Emerson DCs have cast iron field. The laminate core is limited to Northwind. Aside from brush holders and oilers everything is unique to DC vs Northwind. 
Do you have a Emerson 19044 or 19045 32 VDC to validate that? 

I cant imagine Emerson designing a special laminate core for 32v

110vDC

I can't either, but there is only one way to know for sure, that is what I am seeking. Mike holds the key to that if he is up to it before it goes to the museum.  :D  That little 8" 32 VDC is rare as hens teeth.


I don't think(?) your going to find a 19045 32 VDC. Emerson with very little doubt introduced the 10" universal motor desk and bracket Northwind for either circuit and farm plant use at 32 VDC in 17. 


There would be no need for laminate core because of voltage. Emerson had a workable mold and no need to redesign because some were wound for 32v. Even later 12” use same cast core construction for 32v and 110v. The armatures are wider and longer than what was used on Northwind. Totally different construction You can swap armatures between the 9”’s and even into 10” 71045. I have a 10” oscillator with 9” nonoscillator armature converted.

They key difference in recognizing this is the DC motors have cast shoes for fields and motor housing has both a front and rear cover. Northwinds with insertable laminates holding fields slide into a housing with only a front cover.

You can see Mike’s 19045 with both a front and rear cover.

Northwind parts don't work on DCs





Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:53 pm by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:47 pm
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Russ Huber
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1916 Emerson introduces a universal 8" Northwind fan motor. Notice the 16 Emerson article emphasizes universal type motor for operating "8" fans".
I don't think Mike's 19044 has a laminated stator. But being it is a 32 VDC I would sure pretty please like too know for sure.  :D






Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 04:48 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 07:07 pm
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Russ Huber
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Mike, I can't prove it, but I would bet my life your 32 VDC 19044 was manufactured one season in 16. I tried to find an introduction year in 14-15-16 electrical trade for an Emerson 32 VDC. Nothing so far.

What is interesting is the Kettering Delco Light plants hit the market in 16 with 2.5 million in sales in 16 alone. Check out the link below.

"In 1916, Delco introduced the Delco-Light system. Delco offered 25 models of generator sets capable of producing 500 to 3,000 watts of power. Even small towns that were beyond the reach of electric main lines were served by Delco-Light plants."

Collecting Delco-Light Plants - The Official Delco-Light Plant Collectors Site

Electrical Record trade books 14, 15, 16, do not support an Emerson 32 VDC in their fan motor line until 17. That would be a heads up the 10" Northwind was offered for farm plant use as well in 17. Being 14, 15, and 16 makes no mention of a 32 VDC desk fan would be a heads up it was introduced late in its manufacturing period. And then again I could be wrong.  :D  











Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 07:11 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 07:45 pm
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Chris A. Campbell
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Russ Huber wrote: Electrical Record trade books 14, 15, 16, do not support an Emerson 32 VDC in their fan motor line until 17. That would be a heads up the 10" Northwind was offered for farm plant use as well in 17. Being 14, 15, and 16 makes no mention of a 32 VDC desk fan would be a heads up it was introduced late in its manufacturing period. And then again I could be wrong.  :D  


The 23 series was reported 1915-16 and 32vdc option posted in the 1916 General Appliance Co catalog. 23 series uses same brush holders as Mikes 19045. 

Same solid core construction...

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Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 07:53 pm by Chris A. Campbell

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 08:09 pm
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Russ Huber
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Chris A. Campbell wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Electrical Record trade books 14, 15, 16, do not support an Emerson 32 VDC in their fan motor line until 17. That would be a heads up the 10" Northwind was offered for farm plant use as well in 17. Being 14, 15, and 16 makes no mention of a 32 VDC desk fan would be a heads up it was introduced late in its manufacturing period. And then again I could be wrong.  :D  


The 23 series was reported 1915-16 and 32vdc option posted in the 1916 General Appliance Co catalog. 23 series uses same brush holders as Mikes 19045. 

Same solid core construction...

Hey Mike, does this guy want to be right or what/?  :wondering: :D  Thanks for sharing the picture, wherever it came from, Chris. I have no Emerson 8" DCs of that time period to validate.


I wonder why Emerson didn't document information of 32 VDC on their fan motor line shown on Electrical Record trade 14-16?   

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 08:45 pm
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Russ Huber
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"One thing cant get my head around with 23045 is it has a brass 24645 cage."

I received a PM question above, and will post answer here to share.  The 21645 9" desk and bracket fan motor was introduced to the market in 1915 with all brass trimmings. The 23045 9" DC oscillator was introduced to the market same time in 1915. Both remained on the market 15-16. 1917 was the introduction of the 24645 9" AC oscillator which in 1917 went through transition from brass trimmings with etched badge to steel trimmings brass blade.


Now.....was the 23045 oscillator and the 19044 stationary 32 VDC marketed exclusively for 16 with the Delco farm plant explosion?  :wondering:

Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 09:13 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 09:56 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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Chris knows about as much as anyone about the small DC Emersons. He's taught me a lot. I beat him to the 19045 by 2 minutes.
I was surprised to see both switch bodies are cast with a 24645 designation. Don't know why it would be if they weren't of that age? Seems odd to have that number.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 10:10 pm
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote: Chris knows about as much as anyone about the small DC Emersons. He's taught me a lot. I beat him to the 19045 by 2 minutes.
I was surprised to see both switch bodies are cast with a 24645 designation. Don't know why it would be if they weren't of that age? Seems odd to have that number.

None of us are exempt from learning more, no matter how much some of us think we know.  :D  BTW....the 19045(stationary 9") was introduced to the market in 17, the same year as the 24645 (oscillating 9"). That would explain component similarities between the 2. 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 10:36 pm
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Michael Rathberger
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The 19044 has the same switch designation so I would think your 16 date is on target...

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 Posted: Wed Apr 7th, 2021 11:25 pm
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Russ Huber
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Michael Rathberger wrote: The 19044 has the same switch designation so I would think your 16 date is on target...
I have no valid proof as the year your fan was manufactured. What I do know is Emerson is going to be very in tune with consumer needs. If 16 in fact created large sales to the consumers out in the sticks and boonies with new 32 VDC generators, all Emerson had to do is if in fact your fan has the cast field, just start winding them for 32 VDC and slap a tag on them, box em up and ship em to Iowa during mid to late 16 season!   :clap: :D

Whoever has that 23045 should take it to the museum and plop it next to yours.  :D

Last edited on Wed Apr 7th, 2021 11:26 pm by Russ Huber

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