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Early Signal Fans  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 06:49 am
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Russ Huber
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The Signal fans I have for most part are down the road from the 20s.  There is not much in the gallery to reflect on from early Signal table fans.  I found some written word out of an Electric world of 19 that Signal would have fans in there goodies after the ring leader Henry Tideman went to Cairo, Ill. in 19.  Loren brought up a good point that I shared with him.  WHY....would Henry Tideman take exclusive rights to making fans in Cairo...when both of his SONS were remaining INVOLVED with Signal Electric management? :wondering: 

Starting in Oct. 10 1919 Henry Tideman took the reins at his new facility in Cairo, Ill.,  and Signal Electric was now established a business of its own.  Tideman HAD to be equipped to make fans and motors with his new business in Cairo in 19.  Signal was already equipped to make fans and motors as the plant was the old Menominee Electric Mfg. Co in 19.  Henry Tideman MUST of taken the rights to use the ....."MENOMINEE" name on his Cairo produced fans.  Smart marketing move as the name was already established...Signal in Menominee, Michigan had to .....make their new reputation...so to speak.

If any one of you have some very early looking Signal fans(brush motor...AC-DC...whatever)...please share pictures on this post.  It "may" help determine if Signal was producing fans prior to 1925.  Come on dudes...show your stuff! :D     

Last edited on Tue Oct 6th, 2009 07:20 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 09:21 pm
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Russ Huber
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Please help people.  This is the earliest Signal I have(I think :D).  It is an 8" steel blade painted over with brass paint.  The base is cast iron with no switch(plug in fan).  It is a brush motor AC-DC, 25-60 cycles. This fan could date prior to 25. :wondering:

Can anyone share a picture of an early Signal they may have please?  What we are trying to determine is.... DID Henry Tideman stop Signal Electric from making fans from 1919-1925...or not? :wondering:  Features on the early Signal fans could help determine a time period.  Thanks!  

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SignalEarly1.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 05:01 am
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Loren Haroldson
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I sure am slow someitmes. I have a universal Coolspot(Signal) that used brushes. Little eight incher. brass matted blades. It's lightweight and made me feel like I had a Polar cub of the twenties when I pick it up.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 05:30 am
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Larry Hancock
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I have one like that Russ but it is marked Montgomery Ward, but it is made by signal.  I don't know how to determine its age though...  I will post a picture if you think it will help.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 06:09 am
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Russ Huber
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Larry Hancock wrote: I have one like that Russ but it is marked Montgomery Ward, but it is made by signal.  I don't know how to determine its age though...  I will post a picture if you think it will help.

Thanks but no thanks Larry. :up:  Actually what I have waiting for is someone to come forward with a early Signal not like mine, Lorens, or Larry's. :D  Something that reeks of late teens early twenties.

Based on a statement made by Loren in post, and my own beliefs, compiling HARD FACTS on Menominee/Signal is very difficult.  It appears one historical book says this.... and another that.  One Google historical book of upper Michigan states Hammond as the man that started it all in 1892.  It lists Tideman as the GM. :wondering:  H ell... Charles Hammond "appeared" to me like he was 30 years old in a 22 newspaper article on Signal and the new management.  Yet in another book it lists he was the dude that started it all in 92. :cry:  Annnddd....on that same newpaper clip.... no mention of Tideman's sons involvement with the newly established Signal company.  Yet another book clearly lists them in the management.  All I have to say is........FUBAR.

I shared a PM with Loren on what WE feel fairly confident would be the manufacturers name on the EARLY TIDEMAN fans from CAIRO.  Many of the base tags like on DAVE DALSINS are not legible.  Based on a Popular Mechanics ad of 23 of a Tideman Cairo motor........Loren and my distinct IMPRESSION of the manufactures name would be...not TEMCO...but TIDEMAN ELECTRIC MFG. CO. :up:  Now this would only relate to the early batch of TIDEMAN CAIRO, IL. fans like..........this one PICTURED.  The later Tideman CAIRO fans DO have the name.....TEMCO.  There is a later Tideman TEMCO example in the Gallery owned by Jody Jones.  AMEN.:tumbs   

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TemcoCairo1.jpg

Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 06:13 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 07:15 am
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Russ Huber
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http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=micounty;cc=micounty;idno=bac9271.0001.001;frm=frameset;view=image;seq=248;page=root;size=s

http://books.google.com/books?id=VYh5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1499&lpg=PA1499&dq=Henry+Tideman&source=bl&ots=V6Ql3EO8VN&sig=g8N-IAbNevBoTHy0zFfYw7qUQAc&hl=en&ei=jGTNSoK4FOPj8AbIidSEBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Tideman&f=false

http://k8ir.com/signal/1922Article.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=A6MvAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA684&lpg=RA3-PA684&dq=Henry+Tideman&source=bl&ots=cCyTa51dkK&sig=wEMYTKzBGDV5P_EI0NrH3mkOyVg&hl=en&ei=N2bNSvSqD9KM8Ab_4YntAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Tideman&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YZAFAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=Tideman+Electric+Mfg.+Co.&source=bl&ots=3Rd7SyE-yK&sig=VG6t4ZU_1dJYUeU3c0OzmoTmTdU&hl=en&ei=7RPNSvOTI5X8MbDxrDo&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

http://k8ir.com/signal/history.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=3YF5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA587&lpg=PA587&dq=Tideman+Electric+Mfg.+Co.&source=bl&ots=FmpSeaAn-c&sig=kzFsd-VYyq2av_v99n-PoQVfuIY&hl=en&ei=mG7NSoSiIJWm8Qbnv6H2Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=pf5MAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA752&lpg=RA1-PA752&dq=TIDEMAN+ELECTRIC+MFG.+CO.%E2%80%94Cairo.+111.+Manufacturer+of+electric+fans+and+motors.&source=bl&ots=Qc1Y7toyHp&sig=-W-lMON0oPJYb6tKqlanIR-CbU0&hl=en&ei=fXfNStCOKcOHtgfZlNHyAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=TIDEMAN%20ELECTRIC%20MFG.%20CO.%E2%80%94Cairo.%20111.%20Manufacturer%20of%20electric%20fans%20and%20motors.&f=false

Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:25 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 07:56 am
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Russ Huber
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Bingo!...I found a link header that is expired...but...check out the manufacturer name on the fans tag. :up: The proof!

Antique Menominee Electric Fan Circa Early1900's WORKS for sale
21142, Tideman Electric Mfg. Co. Cairo, ILL...The fan measures approx. 17 1/4" tall, and the bottom base diameter is 8"..This fan had to be made in 1919 or ...

Psssst...I would of loved to see this early Cairo Menominee...more than likely a 12" blade. :up:

Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:03 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:11 am
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Russ Huber
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Notice above Tideman Electric Mfg. Co. on this link there is a "TEMCO Electric Motor Co. in Ohio. :up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pf5MAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA494&lpg=RA1-PA494&dq=Tideman+Electric+Mfg.+Co.&source=bl&ots=Qc1Y7tlDIt&sig=MvEnhJDvTW2FWcXAAqmWVXOAh14&hl=en&ei=y3PNSsTbPIXQ8QbI5Oz-Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=Tideman%20Electric%20Mfg.%20Co.&f=false

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:58 am
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Russ Huber
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Loren, the first link above of the series of Tideman links comes from a book dated 1895. There is at least another link confirming Tideman as the GM and.."one" of the Menominee founders along with Hammond in 92. If memory serves me right, I think Darryl's website company Info. indicates Tideman as the sole founder? One link above indicated Tideman as a long term General Manager.

I see nothing so far to indicate Tideman was EVER president of Menominee Electric Mfg. Co. Dudley Tool company......yes...Menominee electric....no. May I of missed something?....yes. :D

Now Tideman's journey to Cairo makes sense....he could be top dog there....How did he get the rights to use the "Menominee" name on his fans in Cairo??? If he wasn't president in Michigan.....why would Menominee Electric change their name to Signal??? There goes my sleep. :down:

Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 09:15 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 02:49 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 Hey Russ , I have this info, a collection of Signal catalogs spanning 1929 thru 1956.. I know this ain't BST but I got the info in 2 volumes for less than $4.00 / catalog post paid.   That will date your Coolspot and any other Signal fans you happen to run across.                   happy fan collector

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 02:51 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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  These are reproduced in ring notebook style for easy reference.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 02:52 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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  It was a royal pain stuffing all of those sleeves !!!

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 06:10 pm
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Russ Huber
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I remember you getting those. Nice package. If my Cool Spot is in the catalog...bummmer. If you go to the Menominee company history page on Darryl Hudson's website...it states Signal began producing fans in 25. So,unfortunately, you are still seeking a few more catalog pages to stuff in? Or...did Signal(1919)never stop making fans as some of the early literature states? Or....was Tideman president, or a GM and MAJOR holder of Menominee Electric at the time of his departure(1919)to Cairo, Il.? Was there a documented 5 year clause stopping Signal from making fans(1919-1925)? If so...why would Tideman leave his two sons in Signal management fresh of 1919 with such a clause? Did Signal not produce fans until late 20s? :wondering:

Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 06:35 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 06:37 pm
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Russ Huber
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Read the description in the patent link. Proof that one of Henry Tideman's sons was in early Signal management. :up:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=BQVTAAAAEBAJ&dq=1582519

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 09:59 pm
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Russ Huber
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Correction...Henry Tideman WAS the president of Menominee Electric Mfg. Co. at the time of the birth of Signal Electric Mfg. Co. I misinterpreted the information in this link prior. How long was Tideman president of Menominee Electric??

http://books.google.com/books?id=A6MvAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA684&lpg=RA3-PA684&dq=Henry+Tideman&source=bl&ots=cCyTa51dkK&sig=wEMYTKzBGDV5P_EI0NrH3mkOyVg&hl=en&ei=N2bNSvSqD9KM8Ab_4YntAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Tideman&f=false

This book link has Tideman in the capacity of secretary and General Manager at Menominee Electric Mfg. Co. in 11. :wondering:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VYh5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1499&lpg=PA1499&dq=Henry+Tideman&source=bl&ots=V6Ql3EO8VN&sig=g8N-IAbNevBoTHy0zFfYw7qUQAc&hl=en&ei=jGTNSoK4FOPj8AbIidSEBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Tideman&f=false

Leo C. Harmon, Menominee Electric Mfg. Co. "02" Tideman in capacity of secretary.

http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA700&lpg=PA700&dq=Henry%20Tideman%20president%20of%20the%20Menominee%20Electric%20Mfg.%20company&sig=s6_g1WH-NZsauQZhM7-CwjuXaoI&ei=azjOStO4FM2utgfO-azyAw&ct=result&id=hJIC1DePgEAC&ots=whtNeVC7-j&output=text

Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 12:47 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 10:20 pm
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Dave Dalsin
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Russ;
MENOMINEE.—Trade name for electric
fans and motors made by the Tideman Electric Mfg. Co., Cairo, 111.


This is in the 1921 "EMF ELECTRICAL YEARBOOK" that you posted.
I think this answers my question about the label.   Dave

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 Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 10:34 pm
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Russ Huber
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Dave Dalsin wrote:


Russ;
MENOMINEE.—Trade name for electric
fans and motors made by the Tideman Electric Mfg. Co., Cairo, 111.


This is in the 1921 "EMF ELECTRICAL YEARBOOK" that you posted.
I think this answers my question about the label.   Dave



Dave, right on! If you go 9 posts up from your post, I have proof there as well. I copied and posted a expired link. Someone was selling a very early Tideman Cairo made fan. The serial for that 12" fan is listed there at 21142! That would of been a fan to see. To bad the post expired and I wonder who got it? :wondering:

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 01:05 am
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Russ Huber
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Finally, the first evidence I have found so far supporting Signal not making fans early based on their listed line of product. This is from a 1921 EMF. :up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pf5MAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA649&lpg=RA1-PA649&dq=Charles+E.+Hammond+Menominee,+Michigan&source=bl&ots=Qc1Z_pnDLv&sig=cVC0aIwQKbCIMbr8w7hGrt4dMqQ&hl=en&ei=F2DOSv3MNcSktgfc5rWFBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAzgU#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:47 am
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Russ Huber
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Ya know what's weird? I didn't see electric motors in the 1921 Signal Electric product line in my above post link. It is as if Tideman took the fan and motor production with him to Cairo? I have found no evidence to support electric fans from Signal Electric of Menominee from 1919 until 29. The only reason I say 29.... is that is when Geoff's groovy catalog collection starts. There are no fan patents to Signal Electric prior to 29. I am hoping someone can shed some proof that SIGNAL indeed made fans prior to 28-29. :wondering:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NNoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA158&lpg=RA1-PA158&dq=Signal+Electric+Mfg.+Co.+Popular+Mechanics&source=bl&ots=JEaQNusNnx&sig=7I9lf_yIFL8VCl7HJ3QC8p5iUiE&hl=en&ei=UHTOSpfsKYScMMCIxZQD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JNsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA180&lpg=RA1-PA180&dq=Signal+Electric+Mfg.+Co.+1924&source=bl&ots=Q3Z6QRN2zD&sig=HfnGBkbdxcLlQFdBGUQ46Wh11ok&hl=en&ei=S4nOSuGwDouiMJW--JQD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBjgo#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 03:54 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 09:59 pm
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Justin Cote
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hey every1 wiccit here,  new member,  crazy about antique fans (antique knobs and old windows). 
does anyone no how much,  if still functioning the signal '39 model that's seen pictured above with the lady (in the sleeve stuffer binder) is worth?
thanx:clap:

Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 10:02 pm by

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 Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 10:08 pm
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Russ Huber
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justin cote wrote:
hey every1 wiccit here,  new member,  crazy about antique fans (antique knobs and old windows). 
does anyone no how much,  if still functioning the signal '39 model that's seen pictured above with the lady (in the sleeve stuffer binder) is worth?
thanx:clap:



$5 :up:

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 01:45 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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I was digging around and found one page of a Signal fan catalogue dated Jan of 26. It has the 8 inch green oscillating Jr, the black 8 inch non oscillating Jr. The aluminum silver colored Cool Spot with 9 inch blades.

Under the Jr, it says with this years improvements we should surpass our record sales of 1925. October of 1919 with a five year agreement would mean the first Signal fans would have been out in 1925.  I forgot to mention that Tideman was out of Cairo by 27 or 28. It didn't last long as he was gone before the market crash.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 03:12 pm
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Geoff Dunaway
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 You may well have made the day for Mr Huber.  :clap:The aluminum Cool Spot fan was nowhere to be found in the catalogs that I had. Can you post a picture of this one or make me a copy ?????  Great uncover Loren :D

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:39 pm
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Russ Huber
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Geoff Dunaway wrote:
 You may well have made the day for Mr Huber.  :clap:The aluminum Cool Spot fan was nowhere to be found in the catalogs that I had. Can you post a picture of this one or make me a copy ?????  Great uncover Loren :D

If Loren wanted to make my day... the way to start is to pull his T-Shirt over that tumor hanging out of his belt line. Loren has always been jealous of my tats. Chicks dig em.

Thanks for the Tideman tidbit as well Loren. Just think...the manufacture of the Tideman Cairo fans were a short span of 19-28?. Didn't even make a decade. :up:

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Last edited on Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:40 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 07:02 pm
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Loren Haroldson
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The way it's worded makes me think that 25 might have been a start up year for fans, but not for certain.  I'll see if I can get an image posted. If not, I'll copy and send to Geoff and let him do it.

When did  we get that picture taken? At least it was taken on a day that happened to be my turn to wear the teeth.

 

 

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 07:13 pm
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Russ Huber
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There is an EMF of 21 that does not show fans in their product line. I thought there was a later EMF I ran across of 23-24 that did not show fans as well...not sure on that one?

http://books.google.com/books?id=pf5MAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA649&lpg=RA1-PA649&dq=Charles+E.+Hammond+Menominee,+Michigan&source=bl&ots=Qc1Z_pnDLv&sig=cVC0aIwQKbCIMbr8w7hGrt4dMqQ&hl=en&ei=F2DOSv3MNcSktgfc5rWFBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAzgU#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Last edited on Thu Oct 29th, 2009 08:01 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 07:45 pm
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Russ Huber
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Now this supports electric fans in their Signal product line in 19 at the time of Tideman's departure to Cairo. This along with a historical document. But...none of this makes it gospel Signal CONTINUED to make fans after 19 for a period of time. :up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=A6MvAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA684&lpg=RA3-PA684&dq=Henry+Tideman&source=bl&ots=cCyTa51dkK&sig=wEMYTKzBGDV5P_EI0NrH3mkOyVg&hl=en&ei=N2bNSvSqD9KM8Ab_4YntAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Tideman&f=false

http://k8ir.com/signal/history.htm

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 12:17 am
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Loren Haroldson
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ok

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 12:26 am
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Russ Huber
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Thanks Loren! :clap: By the way Loren, I won't be able to soak suds with you this weekend. Cousin Lester done got burn't at me and stuffed my truck in a tree again. :up:

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Last edited on Fri Oct 30th, 2009 12:35 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 06:00 am
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Steve Cunningham
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One of the first fans I had was an aluminum Cold Spot.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 06:08 am
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Russ Huber
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Steve Cunningham wrote:
One of the first fans I had was an aluminum Cold Spot.

Holey Buckets...are you telling me the high luster Cool Spot on the front of John Witt's book is a 26 model?? It has a black enamel paint cage with polished aluminum? That is a 26? :wondering:

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 06:26 am
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Russ Huber
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Is this a 26 model? The design says yes. :wondering:

Attached Image (viewed 5649 times):

fans 1 775.jpg

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 05:40 pm
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Russ Huber
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Thank you again Loren. You walk silent, but carry a big stick....something like that.

I was in touch with a guy during an ebay auction way back that was selling one of those shiney oscillating model Signals. I noticed he was from the Twin Cities and I was curious where he found it. A vender had it sitting tucked in with some junk on the ground at a flea market. I have seen many a Signal fan, but that model is a beauty..yes in deedy. Thanks to Loren's single little catalog page contribution...I now know that Signal came out with a dandy in the mid twenties. And Geoff Dunaway has a few more catlogs to find to complete his set. :D:

Last edited on Fri Oct 30th, 2009 05:44 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 11:32 pm
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Nicholas Denney
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Russ Huber wrote: Holey Buckets...are you telling me the high luster Cool Spot on the front of John Witt's book is a 26 model?? It has a black enamel paint cage with polished aluminum? That is a 26? :wondering:

Why not even earlier? :wondering: You may notice that all connections to the rear ring are wrapped rather than welded. :up:

:imao:imao:imao just messin'.....

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 Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 11:54 pm
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Russ Huber
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Nicholas Denney wrote:
Russ Huber wrote: Holey Buckets...are you telling me the high luster Cool Spot on the front of John Witt's book is a 26 model?? It has a black enamel paint cage with polished aluminum? That is a 26? :wondering:

Why not even earlier? :wondering: You may notice that all connections to the rear ring are wrapped rather than welded. :up:

:imao:imao:imao just messin'.....


No your not.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 02:41 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Russ Huber wrote: Nicholas Denney wrote:
Why not even earlier? :wondering: You may notice that all connections to the rear ring are wrapped rather than welded. :up:

:imao:imao:imao just messin'.....


No your not.

So you didn't see that? I don't know what to think of it, since I've never noticed a cage done with both welds and wraps. Maybe it's just a trivial, stylistic thing? :wondering:

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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 03:15 am
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Russ Huber
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:imao:imao:imao Just messin. :up:

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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 03:43 am
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Nicholas Denney
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See? That's what I thought.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 04:04 am
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Russ Huber
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I have some gossip. I talked a bit to an AFCA member today who is fairly confident he has a heavy cast Signal fan that may predate mid 20s. He had it since he was a tyke. He is pretty reliable on his information. Problem is..he is in one area...the fan is in another. I hope in the not to distant future he can show some snaps. :up:

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 Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 06:34 pm
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Kirke West
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! have a few aluminum Cool Spot fans.  What I have noticed from mine is that the stationary models had a black painted cage.  The oscilating model had a nickel or other plated metal that was more of a match to the base and motor.  Also the oscilating model came with two different types of switches.  One was a slidding switch on the base, the other was an on and off switch located higher up and in the base.  They nust have made the fan for more than one year inorder to go for a switch change. Just my guess!

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