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Crocker Wheeler 1/6HP New York  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 09:38 pm
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René Rondeau
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I'm jazzed today: this seriously impressive beast came into my budding collection.









Another stunning restoration by Alan Willms. The detail is unbelievably impressive. Almost as impressive as the power of this very heavy (32 pounds) machine. Somehow the stated rpm of 1800 seems underestimated to me. I sure wouldn't want to get my fingers into these blades...

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 09:57 pm
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Ralph Bliss
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Wow, sweet addition to ANY collection. Congratulations.:up:

Someday....maybe.....

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 11:42 pm
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Nicholas Denney
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Ah, the 'marmalade' fan....

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 11:52 pm
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Jeff Whitfield
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Your collection's not budding, it just got a full bloom.

What an awesome fan.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 12:25 am
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René Rondeau
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My collection is destined to remain small because I'm working with a very narrow focus. As with my main hobby of antique phonographs, I'm primarily interested in early and odd technology. I'm concentrating on fans of the 1890s, and that obviously limits my options!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 12:47 am
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Steve Stephens
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Impressive and factory fresh!. Are they still making those Crocker Wheelers? I suppose the Chinese can reproduce just about anything so it will be hard to tell from an original. They did a magnificant job in capturing what an old Crocker Wheeler is all about. What I want to see is a video if you get around to making one Rene. I bet that fan will make a good daily runner for you.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 01:10 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Rene (or Alan or anyone),

First, that is a magnificent fan/restoration.

Second, would you explain the switch/power/speeds on the fan?

I thought I knew simple circuits, but on the switch I think I see 4 possible contacts and 3 wires out?

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 01:34 am
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René Rondeau
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Here's the patent for the switch, which explains it very clearly. Basically with the switch turned part way it powers one coil. Turned the rest of the way all the contacts are connected and both coils are powered, doubling the speed.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=xYxZAAAAEBAJ&dq=sept.+22+1891+crocker


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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:06 am
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Levi Musselwhite
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GOOD GRIEF!!!

I hope a few things are original to that fan!! Can it even be called an Antique any more?

Got any before pictures????

What ever ones tastes thats an awesome and beautiful fan for any collector congratulations!!!!!!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:07 am
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Alan Willms
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Tom,
Basically the switch changes the field wiring from parallel to series to give a slow and fast speed. It's a very cleaver and effective idea.

Rene,
My dad and I really enjoyed seeing your fabulous collection today. It was a real treat to see so many rare one of a kind phonographs. Thanks so much!!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:09 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Ah, I see the 4th wire now.  The one going to the nearest coil was throwing me off. 

Thanks

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:13 am
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Levi Musselwhite
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wow my computer just had epilepsy.... sorry

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:14 am
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René Rondeau
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I'd certainly consider as much an antique as my Model A Ford, with its new paint, new upholstery, new tires, new brakes, new wiring, rebuilt engine etc.


Last edited on Sat Nov 13th, 2010 02:16 am by René Rondeau

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 03:46 am
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Russ Huber
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Here's the C-W switch wiring diagram for McComas to include in the INFO section. :D

http://books.google.com/books?id=-QpVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA407&dq=Crocker+Wheeler+Fan+motor&hl=en&ei=mxbeTM6yJ8KclgflwvGNDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q=Crocker%20Wheeler%20Fan%20motor&f=false

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 03:49 am
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Russ Huber
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Here...C-W yourself silly. :clap:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_QkAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA186&dq=Crocker+Wheeler+Fan+motor&hl=en&ei=OhXeTMGaCsL6lwfbya3qDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Crocker%20Wheeler%20Fan%20motor&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=6wZPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA304&dq=Crocker+Wheeler+Fan+motor&hl=en&ei=OhXeTMGaCsL6lwfbya3qDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=74QCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA412&dq=Crocker+Wheeler+Fan+motor&hl=en&ei=OhXeTMGaCsL6lwfbya3qDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Crocker%20Wheeler%20Fan%20motor&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=RSDOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA551&dq=Crocker+Wheeler+Fan+motor&hl=en&ei=OhXeTMGaCsL6lwfbya3qDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Crocker%20Wheeler%20Fan%20motor&f=false

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 04:38 am
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Alan Willms
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great links!!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 05:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Alan Willms wrote:
great links!!


It's great to see all of us sharing together. If your out there and shy or intimidated to post...get over it. We're all walks of life here.

Loren posted a picture of Eck's shop. There were young boys there, and men working together. Some of the men I am sure were more skilled and knowledgeable than others. Eck was sitting in the background. I witnessed the same in a article on Interior Conduit. There were young boys there building the fan guards. They all worked together for a common cause....I am sure little predjudice or judgement. Later, :sleeping:

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 06:07 am
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Russ Huber
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Humbling isn't it? :cool: Thanks Loren. :up:

Attached Image (viewed 698 times):

Eck1.jpg

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 12:43 pm
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Mike Petree
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 Congratulations Rene. It's spectacular. Somewhere along the line I've seen pictures of other pieces in your collection and the "narrow focus" of your persuit has landed you another very fine addition.

 Alan, As always your workmanship is superb.

Mike

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 04:29 pm
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Russ Huber
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Mike Petree wrote:
 Congratulations Rene. It's spectacular. Somewhere along the line I've seen pictures of other pieces in your collection and the "narrow focus" of your persuit has landed you another very fine addition.

 Alan, As always your workmanship is superb.

Mike


Ditto. :D

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 05:10 pm
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Thomas Peters
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An exceptional fan/restoration!

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 10:10 pm
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René Rondeau
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Here you go, Steve -- as requested! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06P_t58sjYY

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 05:13 am
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Russ Huber
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Rene, your videos are well done and impressive, and Mike said it right. Don't feel yourself limited with your fascination of the late 19th. These machines are out there. A few weeks back I was in a state with little towns and dirt old buildings. Change is hard in some areas of the country. That is a good thing for we fan dorks. :D Great to have you here! :clap::D

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 05:15 am
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Steve Stephens
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Thank you Rene, I like the way you do your videos with naration and explanation. So much better than a silent film like so many do.

Have you found that your C-W runs very smoothly and strongly? That's the way it seems in the video; much like a new fan but so much better in most ways. Enjoy. I hope to soon have a new blade for my C-W 1/12 HP fan and, now that Alan has gotten it to run and says the bearings are ok, I look forward to using it on occasion.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:01 am
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Russ Huber
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Rene, I.C. Products and Manufacture methods of 95. I have posted this in past, not sure if you saw it. Lundell fan and utility motor/generator manufacture....check out the young men involved in guard assembly on Pg. 564. Notice the cage mold on the table. Notice on the same page the barrels of castings and fan blades. No strobes for blade balancing. Each fan a Mercedes from developed skilled hands. :clap:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UbvmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA555&lpg=PA555&dq=Interior+Conduit+1895&source=bl&ots=d4DsUf1VNy&sig=H65Pg_81TasrE6LBs8kIoFe3x3o&hl=en&ei=joTfTNP4O4SglAf5ofHEAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Interior%20Conduit%201895&f=false

Last edited on Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:04 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:02 am
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Levi Musselwhite
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So C&W's have solid brushes??? Did they ever use the mesh type? How well does the commutator fair with them?

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:10 am
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Russ Huber
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Levi Musselwhite wrote:
So C&W's have solid brushes??? Did they ever use the mesh type? How well does the commutator fair with them?

This was an issue. Brass strip brushes ate commutators. An option was available. How fast it was accepted would take research. The brass gauze wore faster that brass strip, better that than the commutator segments.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=BcJiAAAAEBAJ&dq=410265

Basic stuff 95 book link.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2CBIAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA70&dq=Brass+Gauze+brush&hl=en&ei=rZDfTL37N4Gclgf1o8zgAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Brass%20Gauze%20brush&f=false

Last edited on Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:42 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 06:57 am
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Levi Musselwhite
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Had a motor or two with the mesh type... when I first started to collect old motors.. Thought it would be a good idea to replace the mesh brushes with carbon ones...

Not only were they not original equipment but the carbon's ran slower
and were louder....too hard to get the exact curve on the face without just running the motor a long time to ware in the brush...

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 07:03 am
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Nicholas Denney
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Did you make a point of getting a specific blend? It's not a typical motor and I don't think it would take typical brushes. You can get brushes that are harder or softer, have more or less copper, etc. for different applications.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 07:17 am
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Russ Huber
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There are people outside of our website that peek in with vast knowledge. I know this without question. I am no electrical engineer or authority. I do know however in the late 19th the boys were perfecting the motor. Lundell's IC fan motor was introduced I think in 92. He was using carbon brush. Recent post at Geoff's workshop had a man with a mid to late 19th Lundell. The brush holders are not horizontal....they are angled upwards. Lundell had a mathematical plan behind the approach. I asked on the post for patent dates......nothing yet.

The brass/copper gauze was implemented to save commutators. I know I saw an article with Elihu involved on this subject. Gotta keep the customers happy. :up:

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 04:13 pm
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René Rondeau
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Steve Stephens wrote: Have you found that your C-W runs very smoothly and strongly?
Very much so. Absolutely smooth, perfectly balanced. It's remarkably quiet, certainly less noisy than my Edisons.

At full speed it's almost too much -- it will blow everything off the table.

@Russ, thanks for that link. The picture of the young boys assembling cages is priceless. Those were very different times.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 04:22 pm
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Steve Stephens
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René Rondeau wrote:

At full speed it's almost too much -- it will blow everything off the table.


Are you running the C-W on line voltage or 100 v. by way of a Variac?

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 04:52 pm
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René Rondeau
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Line voltage, obviously through a rectifier. The motor is rated 115V.

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