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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis | |||||
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| Missing Link Found in Saint Louis | Rating: 
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 06:21 am |
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1281st Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Emerson new press fit shaft bearing patent FILED July 9, 1898. Right in the middle of 98 fan motor season. Emerson clearly states plural changes to the 98 fan motor in the Electrical Age with NO mention of the fan blade. 99 Western Electrician nearly bends over backwards boasting the NEW PARKER BLADE. Check out those Parker wings in the 98 patent drawing.  Attached Image (viewed 1392 times): Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 06:22 am by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 06:28 am |
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1282nd Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Was the back lever induction desk fan motor made in 98? 
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 06:53 am |
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1283rd Post |
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David Foster AFCA Member 
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Ron- I thought the Parker blade was supposed to have more of an emphasis on quieter operation. I was unsure about the equal or greater power of the design. Now I'm intrigued. I'll have to someday have some pizza blades made up for one of my 73648s. If the pizza blades have more power was th similar pitch, that could darn near be an attic fan for me to blow out the heat at night.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 07:50 am |
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1284th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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Russ Huber wrote: Was the back lever induction desk fan motor made in 98?The 1898 Emerson catalog shows the "1897 Model Induction Desk Fan" and the "Old Reliable Meston Fan Motors M1 and M2" and the new "1898 Model Induction Fan Motor". The 1897 model has the back switch.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:03 am |
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1285th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Russ Huber wrote:Was the back lever induction desk fan motor made in 98?The 1898 Emerson catalog shows the "1897 Model Induction Desk Fan". Yup. The image is the tail end of an Emerson 98 fan motor article. Back lever models 95-98. Attached Image (viewed 1277 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:23 am |
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1286th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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The same notice of the 1897 model being manufactured for 1898 also appears near the top middle of page 216. I knew that I had read that somewhere and have been scanning my 1898 catalog reprint several times looking for it but it's not in the catalog in those words. https://archive.org/stream/westernelectrici22chic#page/215/mode/1up Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:29 am by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:40 am |
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1287th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Bill, here are photos of my 1899 (or 1898 with Parker blade) base showing the key that keeps the motor from swiveling on the base along with the original bolt.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:40 am |
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1288th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Bill, here are photos of my 1899 (or 1898 with Parker blade) base showing the key that keeps the motor from swiveling on the base along with the original bolt. Attached Image (viewed 1322 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:40 am |
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1289th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Same fan under the motor. Attached Image (viewed 1309 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:40 am |
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1290th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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duplicate post, please remove. Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:47 am by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:44 am |
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1291st Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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This is a 1901 model with the aluminum tag. The base does not have the key and the original bolt is a "made up" factory piece with hex head staked to the rest of the bolt. Also shown are the extra shim? washers on the bolt which probably allow the bolt to be tightened but not so much that it will now allow the motor to swivel. Ser. No. 39892 Attached Image (viewed 1313 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:46 am |
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1292nd Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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The underside of 39892 is the same as my early model and has the keyway. There would be no reason to make a different casting as the slot for the key that does not exist on this fan is not engaged by a key. This photo is not the same fan as two posts above. Attached Image (viewed 1322 times): Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:46 am by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:54 am |
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1293rd Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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There are four shim washers on the 1901 tripod bolt plus one thick washer next to the bolt head. Attached Image (viewed 1314 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 08:59 am |
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1294th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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If anyone has information or can help in dating all years of the 1898-1901 Emerson tripods I would appreciate it: Blade change of Parker blades- small tit on front of hub to rounded domed front of hub and 5 wing to 4 wing. What year is each variation? Cage material. When was the change from steel to brass? Slight variations in the switches: White vs black. No thumb screws vs thumb screws. Well, I know that now but there were a few very minor changes in the face of the switch where hole(s) that were there on 1898-99 switches were filled in then made without the hole(s). Gold gilt decoration on front and back of motor then maybe just a thin strip around outside of motor then, maybe?, an all black motor. Motor tags: brass to aluminu. I think the AL tag was 1901 only.What else would help to date these tripods? Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 09:19 am by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 09:58 am |
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1295th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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1900. Emerson Electric doubled its manufacturing facility in the 1900 season. Emerson opened a warehouse on the east coast holding marketing office at 136 Liberty St. (Electrical Exchange Building). One of the reasons for the eastern office was in past sales were weak on the east coast due to lack of agency to service the area. Shipping from the St. Louis factory to the east coast started soft and grew stronger. One rail car load of desk, bracket, and ceiling developed into the 3 rail car loads into the fan motor season, with more rail car loads to come based on demand . It speaks of changes in the 1900 desk fan over the previous year, but nothing to write home to mother about. So based on Emerson growth and marketing changes the east coast should possibly provide more Emerson fan motor finds in the wild models 1900+. And based on other articles previous it shows various years would of had an effect on fan motor production at the factory and product shipped to market. Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2015 10:00 am by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 01:24 pm |
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1296th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member 
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Since all members have access to the 1898 catalog, I will now post for the first time the relevant lists of all Emerson fans made in the following years, through 1901. All are from the original Emerson catalogs. The written notes are mine, and this is why I don't rely on trade journals, although I have many. Attached Image (viewed 1291 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 01:25 pm |
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1297th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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For 1900; Attached Image (viewed 1306 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 01:27 pm |
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1298th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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And 2 pages for 1901; First; Attached Image (viewed 1282 times):
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2015 01:28 pm |
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1299th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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And finally---for now! Attached Image (viewed 1295 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2015 01:49 pm |
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1300th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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As mentioned several times before, Emerson's first residential fan was the E.I. 21. of 1900. It is shown above in post 1297. Because It has never been recognized or seen I thought I would show more details for the first time. Attached Image (viewed 1249 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2015 01:50 pm |
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1301st Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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& details. Attached Image (viewed 1264 times):
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2015 08:38 pm |
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1302nd Post |
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Dan Hilton AFCA Member
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Doc, Thanks for posting these catalog excerpts. Great reading for the Emerson enthusiasts! Dan H.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2015 10:42 pm |
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1303rd Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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You're welcome Dan, and anyone else who is interested. I still have thousands of pages, many of which I never have and probably never will get to.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 01:56 am |
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1304th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Emerson placed NEW direct current motors ranging from 1/4 to 1/2 HP on the market in what year in the late 19th or early 20th century? The direct current motor is described in Bulletin No. 3028. What year would that be, Bill?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 03:08 am |
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1305th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Russ Huber wrote: Emerson placed NEW direct current motors ranging from 1/4 to 1/2 HP on the market in what year in the late 19th or early 20th century? The direct current motor is described in Bulletin No. 3028. What year would that be, Bill? I got the information from a reputable electrical trade journal, Bill. Let me know if you don't have Emerson fan motor Bulletin No. 3028, and I will share the year of the NEW direct current motor manufacture from Emerson.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 04:00 am |
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1306th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Russ Huber wrote: Russ Huber wrote:Emerson placed NEW direct current motors ranging from 1/4 to 1/2 HP on the market in what year in the late 19th or early 20th century? The direct current motor is described in Bulletin No. 3028. What year would that be, Bill? Open the book link and the correct page should be there. Check out the second article down top left hand side on the new Emerson direct current motors. https://books.google.com/books?id=DlJEAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA427&dq=Emerson+sixteen+inch+desk+fans+++1900&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAWoVChMI5emv3InqxgIViMuACh2cTA28#v=onepage&q=Emerson%20sixteen%20inch%20desk%20fans%20%20%201900&f=false Last edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2015 04:01 am by Russ Huber |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 03:09 pm |
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1307th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Russ, Thanks very much for the Emerson Info. Am busy working on our covered bridge and roof, and getting ready for a visit from David and Betsy Foster. Haven't had a chance to check on Bulletin 3028 yet, but will as soon as I get a chance. I notice it says motors and not fans, but they were probably used in exhaust fans. I skipped over reams of Emerson history if it didn't say fans and certainly could have missed some. I was still in practice at the time, and didn't have the time and luxury of retirement.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 03:42 pm |
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1308th Post |
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George Durbin AFCA Member 
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I would like any info you gents have on the PI-241... If you would be so kind... I cannot find much info on these fans.. Attached Image (viewed 1162 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 03:43 pm |
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1309th Post |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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 Attached Image (viewed 1174 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 10:44 pm |
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1310th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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That's a beauty George and I love the manual start version; mine is the auto start although I do have a stick manual start in rough condition that does not run. The PI-241 came out in 1901 with manual start and was continued for 1902 with the automatic start switch. And that was it; the 910 and 1010 replaced the PI models in 1902 I have read but maybe late 1902? The cage on yours looks correct with the front ring without the crimps where the front wires are wrapped about it. 910/1010 had the crimps and, I think, started out with the large open ring cage then went to the more commonly seen open ring cage. 1901-02 I believe were the only two years that Emerson used the aluminum motor tag which was replaced by a nickel plated brass tag on later models.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2015 11:46 pm |
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1311th Post |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: That's a beauty George and I love the manual start version; mine is the auto start although I do have a stick manual start in rough condition that does not run. Thnx Steve! Aluminum in those days was considered nearly as valuable as silver... over the years that quickly changed of course... I am hoping Russ has some of those patent picture thingys he always comes up with as i am too lazy to look for them... ;) Geo...
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 02:11 am |
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1312th Post |
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John Trier AFCA Member 
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Steve ...... Could you explain more manual start vs. automatic start versions of the PI-241? Mine has a start setting on the switch and you back it off to the run position after it's up to speed. I assume that's the automatic version. How does the manual version work? Thanks..... Steve Stephens wrote: That's a beauty George and I love the manual start version; mine is the auto start although I do have a stick manual start in rough condition that does not run.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 02:25 am |
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1313th Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator 
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The earlier PI-241 had no speed coil. You would slide the switch to start. That engaged the start windings. If left running for long, the start windings would burn up. Once up to speed, you would move the switch to the run position. Some fans had a slower speed as well as run.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 02:35 am |
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1314th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Steve C., Emerson said you could leave them in the start position all the time. In fact they recommended you do so in areas of unreliable power because the danger is, if they lose power they can not restart in the run position. This is the same as the tripods they replaced. The slower speed is the run winding without the start winding. Last edited on Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 02:40 am by Bill Hoehn |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 03:03 am |
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1315th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Bill Hoehn wrote: Steve C.,Bill, I remember reading that in some Emerson literature. Perhaps other makers' fans could be damaged by trying to run on the start position. That would be interesting to know and why it would be that way.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 03:07 am |
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1316th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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John Trier wrote: Steve ...... Could you explain more manual start vs. automatic start versions of the PI-241? Mine has a start setting on the switch and you back it off to the run position after it's up to speed. I assume that's the automatic version. How does the manual version work? Thanks.....The tripods and 1901 Emersons did not have a speed coil and I don't know exactly how they worked the speeds. But they did not have the automatic start switch with its contacts. The automatic start would cut out the start windings after the fan motor got going some. Maybe those windings were not capable of running continuously without harm. But the 1901 and earlier models without the auto start had a separate winding to start the fan but it would use more electricity than the other switch positions so the advice was to use less juice and move the switch from the start position. If a power failure happened on the other switch positions the fan would not restart. Did that harm or burn out the motor? Not sure, but leaving in the start position would guard against any problems is the power were to go off.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 03:13 am |
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1317th Post |
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John Trier AFCA Member
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What then ..... is the "manual" start on the PI-241? Last edited on Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 05:15 am by John Trier |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 03:50 am |
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1318th Post |
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Steve Cunningham Administrator
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At one of the early FanFairs, Sidney Lamb read from an Emerson publication. It stated that if the Centrifugal Switch on an Emerson fan failed, it could burn out the start windings.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 04:39 am |
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1319th Post |
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George Durbin AFCA Member
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 Mine has start all the way to the right... Back lever off 1 spot and that is high speed. Back off 1 more spot is low speed... All the way to the left is the "off" position. So this is a circa 1902?... it does not have a Centrifugal switch...Geo...Attached Image (viewed 1136 times): Last edited on Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 04:43 am by George Durbin |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 09:15 am |
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1320th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Yours is the first year for the PI-241; 1901. 1902 models had the centrifugal switch.
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