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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis
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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis | |||||
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| Missing Link Found in Saint Louis | Rating: 
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 09:20 am |
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1321st Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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John Trier wrote: What then ..... is the "manual" start on the PI-241?As George said all the way to the right on the swtch is START which engages the start winding. Other switch positions are the run positions. On auto start you throw the switch all the way to the right (same as manual start) but that engages the start windings via the centrifugal start switch. When the fan gets up to the correct speed the start windings are automatically disconnected leaving the fan running in a run position. The manual start you have to manually take the start windings out of the circuit by the switch. Clear? Hope so. 1901....stick shift 1902....powerglide
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 12:09 pm |
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1322nd Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member 
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It appears George, your PI 241 has the speed coil for the second speed. They made them with and without the coils. Steve C., There is no start position with the centrifugal switch, but Emerson always recommended starting on high when there is more than one speed. You are right if the centrifugal switch fails in the closed position, but usually a spring breaks and they are open. I've never found one failed in the closed position, but I certainly can see how it could happen. Last edited on Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 12:46 pm by Bill Hoehn |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2015 01:55 pm |
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1323rd Post |
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John Trier AFCA Member 
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Got it. What I never knew, was later PI's had centrifugal switches. Steve Stephens wrote: John Trier wrote:What then ..... is the "manual" start on the PI-241?As George said all the way to the right on the swtch is START which engages the start winding. Other switch positions are the run positions.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24th, 2015 01:46 pm |
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1324th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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There is a thread under Post-1950 called Emerson 77648 SG---Tag info needed--- This covers fans back to 1937 and may be interesting to some that normally don't check the Post 1950 threads. It concerns some of the letter suffixes.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2015 12:07 am |
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1325th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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I'm much more comfortable back home. This is being done without a lot of planning and preparation, and I never attempted it before. I don't claim it to be perfect. Emerson first used suffixes, other than the 2010a about 1918 with the 19xxx series. Next (in numerical order---not chronologically) was the 2150 and 2250 series of Emerson B. JR.'s, followed by the 23xx to 26xx's. They used the letter E in some of the early models but later stressed that E and I would not be used. Sometimes the first model was just a number and they went on to B, C, etc. Sometimes they started with A and A combinations. Some models like the Northwinds changed yearly, some using numbers and some letters. Besides color, which was the main difference requiring suffixes, some of the other differences are; osc. or non-osc., swivel or non, size, desk or pedestal, 1, 2 or 3 speed, motor only, blade only etc If you include ceiling (it was duplex rotary---not rotary duplex!) , ventilating, cooling, column, window, chain suspension, box, clutch and clutchless, exhaust, regulator?, suitcase, portable, low table and table, AC and DC, type of blade, type of guard, floor stand, odd sizes (16 1/2, 17 etc,), bracket mounts, with or without radio interfere. condenser, 3 conductor cords, rollabouts, 1 or 3 phase, rubber bladed, with or without shutters, with or without heaters, attic, ball bearing and all of the different brand names made by them, it is almost countless. Back to 77646s; plain, AA, AD, AG, AK, AL, AM, AN, AO, AP, AS, AV, AW, AX, BA, BN, BR, BS, BT, BU, CB, CC, CD, CE, CF, CH, CL, CM, SD, SG, SH, SL, SO, SP, SU, SQ, SW, and AAA (low table fan)\ were the models made. The earliest and last first days of production were 11/12/34 and 1/26/65. Too much! ;-)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:31 pm |
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1326th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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For anyone who visited South Side Electric in the past. This is what it looks like today in the early stages of restoration to it's original condition. First, from the rear, the way we always entered. Attached Image (viewed 1378 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:31 pm |
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1327th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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The second floor; Attached Image (viewed 1366 times): Last edited on Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:35 pm by Bill Hoehn |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:36 pm |
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1328th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Basement; Attached Image (viewed 1378 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:37 pm |
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1329th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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And first floor. Attached Image (viewed 1356 times):
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2015 11:38 pm |
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1330th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Bill, I was at Warren's shop on two brief occasions and got a tour of the upstairs. Wish I had had more time to look around but didn't want to interfere with Warren's business. You were there one time I was. Can you tell us some history of Warren and his South Side Electric? Did Warren start the business and when? Can you comment how the business had changed over the years and what will be done with the restored building? Thanks for posting the photo, I love old buildings and to see the old vs newer or restored.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2015 12:14 am |
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1331st Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Steve, I've posted several experiences, starting with Sad News Sun Aug 26-2012. Geoff, Larry Hancock, Jack Johnston, Stefan, Nick loos, John Witt and others surely could add memories if they want to. The building, in a historic district, is being restored to it's original condition. I believe it was a Men's Store with living quarters upstairs. The new owner has the records and does terrific restorations. I'll try to post pictures when its finished. I will mention Warren was self trained, but his "partner & the former owner", Gus was an electrician. Training?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 05:42 pm |
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1332nd Post |
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John McComas AFCA Member 
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Bill Hoehn wrote:
Bill, what can I determine from this list of suffixes for the 77646? Is A? earlier production than B? or C? or S? Can you break this down any further? ...paint type wrinkle or smooth, black or brown, desk or pedestal?? Thank you!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 05:53 pm |
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1333rd Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Hey Steveo, a white switch on a 01 bracket mount. Attached Image (viewed 1323 times):
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 07:48 pm |
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1334th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Russ Huber wrote: Hey Steveo, a white switch on a 01 bracket mount.I see a black switch on that bracket fan Russ. Love the bracket but this is the first I have seen one.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 07:50 pm |
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1335th Post |
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George Durbin AFCA Member 
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I blew it up best I could... looks white to me... Edit: I got home to my big computer and it is definitely black... geo... Last edited on Fri Jul 31st, 2015 01:06 am by George Durbin |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 10:28 pm |
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1336th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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John, The pedestal 77646's were (with first day of production); the AM 12/15/40, the AP (Wrinkle) 2/25/48, and the AW 9/16/48. The A's were introduced from '35 to '50, the B's from '37 to '38, the C's from '45 to '54 and the S's from '52 to '65. Obviously a lot of overlap based on the other differences.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2015 10:43 pm |
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1337th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Reviewing the switch (porcelain) colors for all years used (1898 thru 1901) I find Emerson does not describe the color in any catalog. The cuts used in '98 and '99 are poor detail and appear white (for contrast?), but with black edges. Hard to tell with the shadows. The catalogs for 1900 and '01 are better detailed and still appear white with black edges---shadows? The only completely black appearing cut is here from page 10 of the 1901 Catalogue No. 2215 issued January 1st, 1901. Attached Image (viewed 1298 times):
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31st, 2015 02:07 am |
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1338th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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OMG Steveo! That switch is an ebpny with highlights for sure! Attached Image (viewed 1278 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 04:56 pm |
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1339th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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In the past, before I posted pictures, most quotes from Emerson literature were ignored and controversies persist. Therefore I'll post some definitive literature. The first explains when and why Emerson switched from brass to steel blades. From: SALES DATA NO. 51 Attached Image (viewed 1235 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 05:11 pm |
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1340th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Special Nameplates: Attached Image (viewed 1242 times): Last edited on Thu Aug 6th, 2015 05:11 pm by Bill Hoehn |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 05:12 pm |
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1341st Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Cases for 9" osc.: Attached Image (viewed 1233 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 05:26 pm |
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1342nd Post |
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Chris Kelly Guest
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do you have a catalog showing the duplex rotary?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 09:27 pm |
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1343rd Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Two fans made with the "Improved Parker-design aluminum blades." Attached Image (viewed 1206 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 10:17 pm |
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1344th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Chris, I do not have a catalog showing the Duplex Rotary's. Many are visible in my factory photos online. What I do have is this literature and photos of mine, that I restored. First; some of the first day of production figures. Attached Image (viewed 1211 times): Last edited on Thu Aug 6th, 2015 10:18 pm by Bill Hoehn |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 10:19 pm |
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1345th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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More of the same. Attached Image (viewed 1206 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 10:21 pm |
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1346th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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My 12"---65666. Attached Image (viewed 1203 times):
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| Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2015 10:22 pm |
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1347th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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and my16" 61668. Attached Image (viewed 1178 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 8th, 2015 04:24 pm |
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1348th Post |
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Fred Berry Guest 
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Bill. Russ, do you guys have catalog prints or magazine prints of the 1903 1310? Not interested in 1320 and the 1610, or later, just the 1310. This is my favorite Emerson fan, and most of the cuts I've seen here are earlier or later. Every single morning of the year, as I sit here at my computer desk, I love to look up and admire mine. To me, the 1310 is the most elegant and classic-in-looks antique fan of all models/makes. I am happy to see so many saved and in collectors hands. Photo: I just take right now, looking up at my 1310 on the computer tower. Everybody should have one! Attached Image (viewed 1174 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 8th, 2015 08:33 pm |
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1349th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Fred, I think this is what you want. As you can see Emerson does not use the type number, but I believe this is it. This is from their Catalogue No. 2580--- Issued January 1st, 1903. I've decided after seeing hundreds of posts and photos of my fans and literature, that I will now put identification with them if I remember. Attached Image (viewed 1170 times):
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| Posted: Sat Aug 8th, 2015 08:34 pm |
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1350th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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& Attached Image (viewed 1148 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 06:48 pm |
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1351st Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Bill, is there anything in your ephemera that has some detailed information regarding the finish(enamel/Japan) on the fan motors?
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 08:35 pm |
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1352nd Post |
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Fred Berry Guest
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Wow Bill, this is awesome! And it does show the bases of the blades which are squared off, but also cut on one side. So mine for sure is original! Also note the early original struts that lack the Emerson-bend of the later 1610 and up. I am sure that the fan in this old picture has the nickel-plated small motor tag. William Drabble's 1310 in the galleries looks to have aftermarket blades, struts and maybe cage. The blade-bases are cut straight across, lacking the small angle-cut of the originals. The struts on his fan are the later type with the bend at their tips which thrusts the cage forward a little bit. The two 1320's in the galleries have these same simple struts as my 1310 does, without the fancy tip-bends. Terry Fishers restored 2010 has the straight + angle blade-bases, just like my 1310. So this adds fuel to the thought that all the original blades for the old cast iron hubs were like mine and Terry's, while straight cut all the way across is aftermarket. Your thoughts? Catalog shows net weight at 23 pounds. (For a fan!! That is heavier than the Queen Mary ocean liner! How did they expect housewives to attempt to move these heavy monsters around the house??!!  )In reality, wonderfully over-engineered. Many thanks Bill. I concur that the fan in your catalog cuts here is definitely a 1310. Last edited on Sun Aug 9th, 2015 09:02 pm by Fred Berry |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:38 pm |
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1353rd Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Fred, Why do you do this to me? Just kidding, I enjoy the challenge and learning! I had never concentrated on the straight verses the angled cut wings before. I started taking close ups of both styles of cast 6 wingers, 12 and 16", and it got out of control. I checked fifty or sixty ACs, DCs and Trojans. There are both styles in all and the angled cuts are found on 14666s, 16666s and even 17666s, besides the 1310 and the 1610. Where there was no reason to angle them they were left straight. The ultimate find was straight bent and cut on the same blade depending on the room on the casting. Some workmen just bent them some cut them off as necessary. The 1320 and 1620 have plenty of room and are straight, so it's only the 12" blades that are relevant. I'll post a few examples. First a straight 1310 Attached Image (viewed 1111 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:40 pm |
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1354th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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1320 - note all of the room. Attached Image (viewed 1107 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:41 pm |
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1355th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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1610 crowded. Attached Image (viewed 1118 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:42 pm |
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1356th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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1620- Plenty of room. Attached Image (viewed 1110 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:45 pm |
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1357th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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later with angled like the 14666, 16666 and 17666. Attached Image (viewed 1079 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:47 pm |
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1358th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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the extreme with straight, bent and cut on one hub! Attached Image (viewed 1097 times):
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| Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2015 11:50 pm |
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1359th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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and last-an osc with angled. I didn't bother with the DCs or Trojans. Attached Image (viewed 1101 times):
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2015 12:08 am |
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1360th Post |
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Bill Hoehn AFCA Member
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Russ, I've posted some detail about Emerson's finishes in the past and I have more on the Japanning , but can't locate it at the moment.
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