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Missing Link Found in Saint Louis  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 06:03 pm
   
1401st Post
Bill Hoehn
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Thanks David for your reply.

Being almost computer illiterate I'm more confused than before.

The column headings are views and replies.  The replies went from about 68,100 to 69,500 and you say there are only 1400 total. Very confusing with threads, posts, hits, views, replies et cetera.

Maybe you can explain it?

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 07:46 pm
   
1402nd Post
David Hoatson
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Maybe it shows up funny on your computer.

 

I see 1400 replies.  This makes sense since there was your original post, and 1401 Posts total. 

 

I also see 69,588 views.  This is the number of times folks looked at the thread, I think.

 

You started a classic thread that lots of folks watch.  I, for example, love seeing the old motors, the internals of the early Emerson's, the lead ingots, etc.  Some of the content is so great that I, as an amateur, just have nothing to add except "wow!".  Don't feel bad if you get no responses.  For most people, watching this thread is like watching a movie - don't interrupt the director, just sit back quietly and enjoy.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 07:59 pm
   
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Bill Hoehn
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Beautifully expressed and much appreciated!  

The supply here is endless.

I just feel sorry for my family and what they're going to do with it all.

A museum? 

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 08:02 pm
   
1404th Post
David Foster
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David-
You're answer is rather spot on IMO. I'm fairly new at all of this fan history. I enjoy it immensely. I don't have the research skills of Russ. Don't have the experience of Dr. Bill. I'm fascinated by the history and the impassioned stances. But aside from being a cheerleader or thread killer, I don't have much to offer on this thread. But I sure enjoy the heck out of it. 

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 08:38 pm
   
1405th Post
Russ Huber
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Bill Hoehn wrote: I can see now why many members tell me it isn't worth the time and trouble to get involved with this forum!

I think I know why, but what about other opinions?


David Foster wrote:
I'm fairly new at all of this fan history. I enjoy it immensely. I don't have the research skills of Russ. Don't have the experience of Dr. Bill. I'm fascinated by the history and the impassioned stances. But aside from being a cheerleader or thread killer, I don't have much to offer on this thread. But I sure enjoy the heck out of it. 

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 10:43 pm
   
1406th Post
David Hoatson
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Bill Hoehn wrote: I just feel sorry for my family and what they're going to do with it all.

A museum? 


Bill, this is an interesting point.  Sometimes a person will work his entire life building a collection.  When he passes on, this can be a very large burden for the family - cleaning out the collection, selling, or whatever.

 

It seems to me that the collection could be placed in a museum, or a fan collector could run up and get the best pieces for themselves or to sell.  Putting an entire collection on eBay would be a huge effort that could take a volunteer months to catalog, sell, and ship.  The family could get an auction house to liquidate it all.  Maybe set up some sales ahead of time, like an agreement to put the Gemerson in the Fanimation museum, or a pre-sale to a member.

 

The collector has invested lots of money in the collection and the family should get a reasonable return from any sale.

 

I have an insignificant collection.  My wife will probably call up Goodwill and they will probably toss the "junk".  I was thinking of tagging each item with a description and significance, as some items are very obscure, but important.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 11:51 pm
   
1407th Post
Jim Kovar
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Bill Hoehn wrote: The other is my new non-Harbor Freight buffer-

George Durbin wrote:
HI Doc!
Better get your glasses fixed! That don't say Habour Freight!  ;)
Geo...

:eyes   "Non-Harbor Freight"    :eyes

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 01:24 am
   
1408th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Jim,

Apparently your glasses are better than George's or you're one of those fortunate ones who doesn't need them.

Oh, to have 20/15 vision again!

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 02:20 am
   
1409th Post
William Dunlap
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Please don't loose faith. I read every post of this thread. I do it even though I don't really study the history or collect the really old fans. I do it because I like to learn. This thread will be referred to for years due to the in-depth discussion of these early fans.

I'm sorry I don't have anything to contribute to the discussion, but, don't forget that at least I'm here with every new post reading up on the history.

It's definitely worth doing.

Cheers,Bill

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 03:10 am
   
1410th Post
Tom Dreesen
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Bill Hoehn wrote: I'm just curious about why there are approximately 1400 hits on this thread in the past two days and not one reply?

I can see now why many members tell me it isn't worth the time and trouble to get involved with this forum!

I think I know why, but what about other opinions?

Bill, The *powers that be* constantly urge members to reply only when we have something to add to the discussion.  No atta boy, wow, etc.  

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 05:05 am
   
1411th Post
Gary Hagan
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Bill I am glad to see you so active in the forums. You bring a positive vibe to this place. At times there are disputes and bickering over this and that but overall everyone has good qualities and brings something good to the table. I don't want to jinx it but now that i think about it. It has been very pleasant as of most recently.

Last edited on Wed Aug 19th, 2015 06:26 am by Gary Hagan

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 05:28 am
   
1412th Post
George Durbin
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HI Bill!
I got the answer to all those fans!  I will turn my house into the Doc Hoehn fan museum! I will pass out free donuts to all visitors and mention why GE  was not able to compete with the finest fans in the world!! And then on a large screen in the background I will run this post of all the discussions we have had... That will be good for a month or two!!
Geo...

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 07:11 am
   
1413th Post
Jim Kovar
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Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,...   ...glasses...   ...one of those fortunate ones who doesn't need them.
Oh how I wish!   :eyes

Without my spectacles,
I'm as blind as a...

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 10:35 pm
   
1414th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Thanks for all of the support on the forum.

Back to fans.

I just reviewed the club's Emerson catalog list, and decided that if any individual club members need anything from these additional catalogs I will be glad to share it with them, as I have in the past.

1893, '95, '96, '97, '99, 1900, '01 thru '07, (parts for '09 thru '12), '15, '23, '25, '26, '29, '31, '32, '33, '51, '58, '61 thru '66, & '70.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 11:09 pm
   
1415th Post
Rich Becher
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FWIW, I have an original 1910 Emerson catalog and would be willing to share anything out of it with members as well....

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 04:33 pm
   
1416th Post
Russ Huber
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When Did The First Emerson Jr. Oscillator Hit The Market?


 


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Last edited on Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 04:37 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 04:42 pm
   
1417th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Thanks Russ.

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 05:13 pm
   
1418th Post
Russ Huber
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Bill, Being you have recented Emerson ephemera dating 25-26, did you witness anything pertaining to the introduction of the PYRAMID "BUILT TO LAST" badge AND the IMPROVED PARKER BLADE? Thanks!

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 06:41 pm
   
1419th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Russ,

It started raining, so I stopped working on the lighting for my covered bridge and looked for answers.

I do not have a 1927 catalog.  We know the improved parker blade was patented Aug. 9, 1927.

Both the Pyramid badge and the improved Parker blade show prominently in their catalog No. 4035 of January 1st, 1928, along with the introduction of the New Improved 16-inch Induction Oscillators.

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 06:43 pm
   
1420th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Picture proof for 1928,

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 06:44 pm
   
1421st Post
Bill Hoehn
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& osc. details.

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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 07:53 pm
   
1422nd Post
Ron Jeter
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Hey Rich: If you can post some of the photos in the catalog that you posted in Post no. 1415 - I am interested in the photos/description and type number of the fan on the front cover. THANKS

Last edited on Sat Aug 22nd, 2015 07:54 pm by Ron Jeter

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:06 am
   
1423rd Post
Russ Huber
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Bill Hoehn wrote: Both the Pyramid badge and the improved Parker blade show prominently in their catalog No. 4035 of January 1st, 1928, along with the introduction of the New Improved 16-inch Induction Oscillators.

The PYRAMID and "Built To Last" Emerson trademark was registered in June of 1925. The improved Parker wing patent was FILED in Sept. of 1925. Once the trademark is registered, and the patent is filed, the badge would FOR SURE be ready to place on the market for the 26 fan motor season.  

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:08 am
   
1424th Post
Russ Huber
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Patent filed and Emerson interest protected Sept. of 25. 

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:09 am
   
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Russ Huber
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.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:11 am
   
1426th Post
Russ Huber
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Now, my distinct impression is the Built To Last badge was on the guard in 1926. Can anyone prove or disprove my impression?  :wondering:

Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:11 am by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 08:38 am
   
1427th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Confusion Russ,

We're talking about 2 different blades apparently patented on the same date. I was referring to the 16 inch blade as shown in the '28 literature basically flat with the following edge which has a sharp angle---not "bullwinkel". 

The '26 literature as previously shown does have the "bullwinkel" in all sizes, and is maybe your patent pictured.

There are 10 front views of fans in the '26 and none has the Pyramid---all have the normal Emerson worded badge.

The Pyramid first shows on the back page (24) of the '26 literature, and as I stated before I do not have a '27 catalog, but I assume (don't know as you pointed out!) that the Pyramid would show there. 

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Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 08:47 am by Bill Hoehn

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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2015 05:44 pm
   
1428th Post
Russ Huber
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Bill Hoehn wrote: Confusion Russ,

The Pyramid first shows on the back page (24) of the '26 literature, and as I stated before I do not have a '27 catalog, but I assume (don't know as you pointed out!) that the Pyramid would show there. 


The 26 catalogue has images sporting the earlier badge prior to the pyramid badge. This is unfortunate as the new "Built to Last" pyramid image is sported as suspected in the 26 catalogue. Yes, confusion.

To make it worse, why register a trademark in 25, and not use it on the fan motor itself in 25 or the next season of 26? The documentation states the trademark for use on specific Emerson product and fan motors is one of them.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 03:14 pm
   
1429th Post
Bill Hoehn
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Russ,

I just have to open an old "can of worms".  In post 19 of "Why so many different early Emerson model #'s?", the reference still refers to the Meston fans of 1895 and 1896 as Emerson's.  I thought that myth was debunked a long time ago.

My question is, do you or anyone else in the club still go along with this?

All of my personal contacts and PM's ridicule it, especially all of the owners of these Mestons, and I would like to hear publicly if anyone else supports this position that the rest of us don't!

Emerson Bill

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 06:55 pm
   
1430th Post
Russ Huber
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Bill Hoehn wrote: Russ,

I just have to open an old "can of worms".  In post 19 of "Why so many different early Emerson model #'s?", the reference still refers to the Meston fans of 1895 and 1896 as Emerson's.  I thought that myth was debunked a long time ago.

My question is, do you or anyone else in the club still go along with this?

All of my personal contacts and PM's ridicule it, especially all of the owners of these Mestons, and I would like to hear publicly if anyone else supports this position that the rest of us don't!

Emerson Bill

Does your 1898 Emerson fan motor catalogue make reference to an Emerson desk fan as a "Meston" ? If so please post the page(s). If not, please post any catalogue page(s) making reference to an Emerson tripod desk fan as a "Meston" years 99-01. Thanks.

Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2015 07:25 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 08:52 pm
   
1431st Post
Bill Hoehn
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This has all ben done several times in the past, and the fans from 1898 to 1901 are Emerson tripods with no dispute by anyone that I've heard of.

To answer your question Emerson never referred to a Meston as an Emerson desk fan, or an Emerson as a Meston! 

What they named them (cast in bronze---no less) is what they are!

Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2015 08:55 pm by Bill Hoehn

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:28 pm
   
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Russ Huber
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Bill Hoehn wrote: This has all ben done several times in the past, and the fans from 1898 to 1901 are Emerson tripods with no dispute by anyone that I've heard of.

To answer your question Emerson never referred to a Meston as an Emerson desk fan, or an Emerson as a Meston! 

What they named them (cast in bronze---no less) is what they are!


Bill, with all due respects, my question is not answered. From 1898-01 Emerson offered a tripod alternating current desk fan. Do any of your 98-01 catalogues make reference to the induction(brushless) type tripod alternating current desk fan as a "Meston" fan motor?

Notice in the 97 article image I have posted they differentiate between the Emerson Induction and Meston desk fan motor.

 

Attached Image (viewed 1044 times):

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:29 pm
   
1433rd Post
Russ Huber
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1896 catalogue

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Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:29 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:30 pm
   
1434th Post
Russ Huber
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1896 catalogue. Appearance is like our celebrated "Meston" motor.

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1896 Emerson catalog p_7.jpg

Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:32 pm by Russ Huber

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 09:38 pm
   
1435th Post
Russ Huber
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Bill, if your 98-01 catalogues support a "Meston" INDUCTION desk fan motor, than you have something, if not, respectively said, you are in denial. However, if you wish to refer to an Emerson tripod be it Induction or brushed as a "Meston", that is fine with me.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 10:12 pm
   
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Russ Huber
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The Electrical Workers' Journal - Volume 52




1953 - ‎Snippet view - ‎Briner Electrical Company is woven around Charles J. Briner and Fred E. Briner, two pioneers of the electrical industry in St. Louis. Although they started with individual ventures, they merged their talents to become one of the leading motor repair shops in the United States. Fred E. Briner, seven years younger than his Brother, came to St. Louis in 1889, and a year later was associated with Alex Meston.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 10:23 pm
   
1437th Post
Russ Huber
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MAYBE......there is good reason Emerson differentiated between the back lever induction fan motor and the brushed "Meston"? Keep in mind Alexander Meston WAS the fan motor engineer for Emerson and his brother Charles Meston was the book keeper. Alexander passed of TB in 93, so Emerson lost their fan motor engineer. Charles had to do some scrambling starting in 93 to keep the Emerson boat afloat. I am sure Charles had some electrical training, but MAY of brought Briner into the picture to design the 95 back lever induction desk fan motor?

There is evidence to support Frederick Briner of St. Louis may of played a key part in the design of the Emerson INDUCTION fan motor introduced to the market in 95.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 10:25 pm
   
1438th Post
Russ Huber
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The old reliable "Meston" desk fan for good reason, a MESTON designed it and filed patent in 92.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 11:21 pm
   
1439th Post
Jim Kovar
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What Chuck and Freddy
Briner were up to in '13,...

just a couple years ago.  :wondering:





 :clap:   Only $15.08 for an
armature rewind...


That's where I'll be sending
mine!  :wondering:



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Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2015 11:32 pm by Jim Kovar

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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2015 11:55 pm
   
1440th Post
Russ Huber
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Alexander Meston took a short course in electrical engineering at Washington University at St. Louis. within the year of 1890. His brother Charles must of got his training to be an electrical engineer out of box of Cracker Jacks. I think Charles got his electrical and mechanical engineering skills on the job? Charles was a book keeper shortly after entering the country from Scotland up into joining Alexander at their first rinky dink shop in 90 through the incorporation of Emerson in Sept. of 90. 

Alexander by our standards would be labeled a nerd. He is described as frail. Both he and Charles contracted Tuberculosis at the same time. The more physically hardy Charles survived, Alexander despite efforts to get on top of it was not strong enough to pull through.

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Last edited on Wed Aug 26th, 2015 12:00 am by Russ Huber

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