AFCA Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis

 Moderated by: Steve Cunningham, Stan Adams, Rod Rogers Page:  First Page Previous Page  ...  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Printer Friendly
Missing Link Found in Saint Louis  Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 05:46 pm
   
1521st Post
Jeff Whitfield
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri Apr 9th, 2010
Location: USA
Status: 
Offline
When I once went looking for early fan advertising, the really nice print ads always appeared in post World War I issues of the Saturday Evening Post. Some decent ads were in the weekly editions of the London Times, but dominated by hot air fans made by Kyo-ko.  Pre World War I print ads, by comparison, look crude. I guesstimated that the average joe could've gone to their local hardware store to get fans in the  early days. So ... how would they know where to go? The newspapers. Local newspapers dating to the turn of the 20th century ran advertisements (from hardware stores) for fans, that, in some instances (that I saw) weren't always ads prepared by the manufacturers. Newspapers, though it would be really tedious, could be a go-to reference to search and double check whatever appears in trade journals. I saw, for example, ads for fly fans in an early Atlanta hardware store.

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 05:49 pm by Jeff Whitfield

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 05:48 pm
   
1522nd Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Emerson Product Feb. of 1891.

Attached Image (viewed 1135 times):

books.png

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 05:58 pm
   
1523rd Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Jeff Whitfield wrote: When I once went looking for early fan advertising, the really nice print ads always appeared in post World War I issues of the Saturday Evening Post. Some decent ads were in the weekly editions of the London Times, but dominated by hot air fans made by Kyo-ko.  Pre World War I print ads, by comparison, look crude. I guesstimated that the average joe could've gone to their local hardware store to get fans in the  early days. So ... how would they know where to go? The newspapers. Local newspapers dating to the turn of the 20th century ran advertisements (from hardware stores) for fans, that, in some instances (that I saw) weren't always ads prepared by the manufacturers. Newspapers, though it would be really tedious, could be a go-to reference to search and double check whatever appears in trade journals. I saw, for example, ads for fly fans in an early Atlanta hardware store.

The average Joe and below in the late 19th century and early 20th would have been able to afford "maybe" a battery fan.  

You see in many case 136 liberty street in NY. This was the Immense Electrical Exchange Building loaded with offices loaded with manufacturer reps. and manufacturer agents. Electrical contractors established throughout the country represented the sales of fan motors of various manufacturers. ESTABLISHED electrical supply houses gained reputation amongst established businesses and the well to do.

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 06:07 pm
   
1524th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Emerson got on the map thanks to agents like the Electrical Appliance Co.

Eck got on the map thanks to the agency of Goldmark & Wallace. Eck's reputation was established well enough into the 20th that in 03 he dumped Goldmark & Wallace briefly.

Fan manufacturers needed an agent to get them on the map in those times.

James P. Williams, father of the Globe and Paragon fan motor not only established his manufacturing facility he was briefly his own agent in NY until the Insulls of the Chicago Edison of Chicago stepped in and made him filthy rich. Williams dropped off the map in 1899.

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 06:46 pm
   
1525th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ,

I don't know who mislabeled the 1893 tripod in your response to David, but it certainly wasn't Emerson.

Your 1892 catalog shows the 1892 cone base and the 1893 shows the tripod.  Over and out! 

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:09 pm
   
1526th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ,

I still haven't figured out how to send pictures again, but I may be able to send a scan of most of Emerson's agents for 1893.  There were many---not just your Chicago outfit, and this is a partial list!

Attached Image (viewed 1106 times):

scan0063.jpg

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:22 pm
   
1527th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Russ,

I still haven't figured out how to send pictures again, but I may be able to send a scan of most of Emerson's agents for 1893.  There were many---not just your Chicago outfit, and this is a partial list!

I didn't say there was just one agent. I pointed out one important one that did much of the advertising for Emerson in the electrical trade books. That would be the prominent Electrical Appliance Co. of Chicago.

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:24 pm
   
1528th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Russ,

I don't know who mislabeled the 1893 tripod in your response to David, but it certainly wasn't Emerson.

Your 1892 catalog shows the 1892 cone base and the 1893 shows the tripod.  Over and out! 

Ok Bill, Check out the date of this Dental related book of MAY 1892. I assure you it is very real and dates May of 1892.

Attached Image (viewed 1079 times):

books4HH2XG8O.png

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:27 pm
   
1529th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Now Bill, THIS IMAGE BELOW IS FROM THE CONTENTS OF THE BOOK MENTIONED ABOVE. Check out what Dentist Dr. Harper has to say about the Emerson Meston alternating current fan motor in MAY OF 1892.

Attached Image (viewed 1102 times):

booksY83A86ZZ.png

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:31 pm
   
1530th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
.

Attached Image (viewed 1048 times):

Emerson92-2.jpg

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:41 pm
   
1531st Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Do take notice, Bill, it states FAN MOTOR........not FAN MOTORS for 92. The 92 Western Electrician supports the Meston 92 model as a tripod.

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 07:42 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 08:04 pm
   
1532nd Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill, just for you from Archive.org is the page dated May of 1892 with the "1892 Model Meston" as stated in the article with speed regulation as stated in the article.

As I have stated countless times there is not one PROMINENT electrical trade journal or 92 book that supports Emerson having the CONE BASE MESTONS 2001 AND 2002 on the market for the fan motor season in 1892.

Please use the enlarging feature Archive.org provides to read the article on the Emerson Meston 92 fan motor.


https://archive.org/stream/westernelectrici10chic#page/280/mode/2up

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 08:06 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 08:46 pm
   
1533rd Post
Jeff Whitfield
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri Apr 9th, 2010
Location: USA
Status: 
Offline
No doubt about the electrical agents, but guys could still go to the hardware store. How about King Hardware?


...

http://atlnewspapers.galileo.usg.edu/atlnewspapers-j2k/view?docId=bookreader/aga/aga1910/aga1910-2456.mets.xml;query=king hardware fly fan;brand=atlnewspapers-j2k-brand#page/n0/mode/1up

...

http://atlnewspapers.galileo.usg.edu/atlnewspapers-j2k/view?docId=bookreader/aga/aga1911/aga1911-3484.mets.xml;query=king hardware electric fan;brand=atlnewspapers-j2k-brand#page/n0/mode/1up







Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 08:51 pm by Jeff Whitfield

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 08:56 pm
   
1534th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ,

I see you again refer to that mislabeled cut in post 1530 that you did in 1517.

Look again at your wonderful source in post 1529.  There was never a company that it names as  "The Meston Electric Manufacturing Co., St Louis."

Do you sincerely think that these agents and publications know more about the fans than the manufacturer?  That's preposterous, when they don't even know the company name! :-)

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 09:03 pm by Bill Hoehn

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 09:53 pm
   
1535th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Russ,

Do you sincerely think that these agents and publications know more about the fans than the manufacturer?  That's preposterous, when they don't even know the company name! :-)


No. So I give you an advertisement directly from Emerson Electric Mfg. Co. in February of 1892.

First.........the name of the book, and the dating of the book. The dates are Feb. 23-25 of 1892. this was the 15th convention.

Attached Image (viewed 1070 times):

booksQHM57UJ8.png

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:29 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 09:55 pm
   
1536th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Now I give you the advertisers listed in the book. Scroll down with your eyes and take notice the advertiser shown for page 393.

Attached Image (viewed 1097 times):

booksR1K5UOU6.png

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 09:58 pm
   
1537th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Now Bill, feast your eyes on the advertisement on page 393 in this shown just above February of 1892 legit book.

Attached Image (viewed 1056 times):

92MestonAd.jpg

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:00 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:08 pm
   
1538th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
So---doesn't prove a thing---more screw-ups by your secondary source! 

Who added the 1892 in parentheses to the 1893 Meston tripod and changed Emerson's original cut?  That will be a challenge for you to find out! 

If you show that bastard cut often enough, maybe you'll convince another person, somewhere.  Can't help but notice no one else has agreed with you, yet.  Where are they? :-)

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:14 pm by Bill Hoehn

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:20 pm
   
1539th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Who added the 1892 in parentheses?

The Emerson Electric Mfg. Co. , it is their advertisement as shown in the list of advertisers on page 393. No model 2001 and 2002 cone base Mestons in 92, Bill, Sorry.

Attached Image (viewed 1081 times):

booksR1K5UOU6.png

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:29 pm
   
1540th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Here is the original from Emerson catalog of 1893.

Attached Image (viewed 1049 times):

scan0065.jpg

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:30 pm
   
1541st Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
And the description of the 1893 Meston Tripod;

Attached Image (viewed 1040 times):

scan0066.jpg

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:31 pm
   
1542nd Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
More, but certainly not all.

Attached Image (viewed 1056 times):

scan0067.jpg

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:35 pm
   
1543rd Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
We are all well aware the tripod Meston was on the market in 93 as well.

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:41 pm
   
1544th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
But only as an 1893 model---not an 1892 model as your erroneous cuts claim!

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:43 pm
   
1545th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Why in the h ell would numerous electrical trade journals be advertising a tripod Meston fan motor in late winter late spring of 92 if it was introduced in 93? So people could brace themselves, Bill?

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:50 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:54 pm
   
1546th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
We all agree that  the 1893 model was introduced in 1892. 

The only question was, is it an 1892 or an 1893 model as Emerson clearly states.

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:54 pm
   
1547th Post
Jim Kovar
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Feb 21st, 2011
Location:  Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ Huber wrote: ...it states FAN MOTOR........not FAN MOTORS for 92.

True!  That is what is stated.

Attached Image (viewed 1032 times):

Emerson92-2.jpg

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 10:54 pm
   
1548th Post
Jim Kovar
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Feb 21st, 2011
Location:  Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Status: 
Offline
So, using that logic, should one
come to the conclusion that only
one model of (or maybe just one,
period) piano was made between
the years of 1820 and 1860?  :wondering:

Attached Image (viewed 1045 times):

9780198166252.jpg

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:06 pm
   
1549th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: The only question was, is it an 1892 or an 1893 model as Emerson clearly states.


Bill, open the May of 92 WESTERN ELECTRICIAN electrical trade journal and read about the "1892 Model Meston". It is stated in the article "1892 model Meston". There is an enlarging feature provided so you can read it.  I need a stiff cocktail.

https://archive.org/stream/westernelectrici10chic#page/281/mode/1up

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:07 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:25 pm
   
1550th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
I stand corrected on the dating of the book on post 1535 above. The book was published in 1892, but the specific month is unknown.

Attached Image (viewed 1015 times):

booksQHM57UJ8.png

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:34 pm
   
1551st Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:39 pm
   
1552nd Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ,

I'll drink to that, especially since their cut is not dated 1892.

If you're a dealer and receive a new model in 1892, it's natural to assume it's an 1892 and not next years model!  :-)

Back To Top  

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:41 pm
   
1553rd Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!


That's good. Jim just made a point Emerson is making claim on their own advertisement that they had ONE fan motor on the market in 1892, and your looking at it in the image above.

Thanks to Jim we can pretty much rule out the cone base Meston models 2001 and 2002 in your 92 catalogue, Bill.

Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:54 pm by Russ Huber

Back To Top    

 Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2015 11:44 pm
   
1554th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Bill Hoehn wrote: Russ,

I'll drink to that, especially since their cut is not dated 1892.

If you're a dealer and receive a new model in 1892, it's natural to assume it's an 1892 and not next years model!  :-)

Thanks to this post I may just take up drinking again, Bill. Sounds like a plan...fact Jack.

Back To Top  

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 12:45 am
   
1555th Post
Jim Kovar
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Feb 21st, 2011
Location:  Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ Huber wrote: Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!

Thanks to Jim we can pretty much rule out the cone base Meston models 2001 and 2002 in your 92 catalogue, Bill.

In reference to the 1547th and 1548th posts:

Really?  :wondering:

Attached Image (viewed 996 times):

tv-characters-02.jpg

Last edited on Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 12:54 am by Jim Kovar

Back To Top    

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 12:53 am
   
1556th Post
Russ Huber
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Nov 14th, 2005
Location: Southwest, Wisconsin USA
Status: 
Offline
Jim Kovar wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!

Thanks to Jim we can pretty much rule out the cone base Meston models 2001 and 2002 in your 92 catalogue, Bill.

Really?  :wondering:

Ya, your nothing short of amazing, ask Bill. :D

Back To Top  

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 01:19 am
   
1557th Post
Jim Kovar
AFCA Member


Joined: Mon Feb 21st, 2011
Location:  Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Status: 
Offline
Russ Huber wrote: Jim Kovar wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!

Thanks to Jim we can pretty much rule out the cone base Meston models 2001 and 2002 in your 92 catalogue, Bill.

Really?  :wondering:

Ya, your nothing short of amazing, ask Bill. :D

Russ, I was just trying to make the
point that sometimes a word is used
in its "singular" form, but is meant
to be interpreted as "all" or "a group."



Just one model would make a boring
show!

Attached Image (viewed 1004 times):

1910TheAutomobileComboWeb22.jpg

Back To Top    

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 01:29 am
   
1558th Post
Tom Dreesen
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri Nov 25th, 2005
Location: Roanoke, Virginia USA
Status: 
Offline
Jim Kovar wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Jim Kovar wrote: Russ Huber wrote: Bill Hoehn wrote: Jim,

Keep pitchin' 'em.

I caught that one and couldn't have made the point better!

Thanks to Jim we can pretty much rule out the cone base Meston models 2001 and 2002 in your 92 catalogue, Bill.

Really?  :wondering:

Ya, your nothing short of amazing, ask Bill. :D

Russ, I was just trying to make the
point that sometimes a word is used
in its "singular" form, but is meant
to be interpreted as "all" or "a group."



Just one model would make a boring
show!


But you are going from *the whatever* as a category, to *the specific* from a single manufacturer.  
Not really comparable. 

Back To Top  

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 01:30 am
   
1559th Post
Bill Hoehn
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri May 13th, 2011
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri USA
Status: 
Offline
That depends on what she looks like, Jim!

Back To Top    

 Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2015 02:19 am
   
1560th Post
George Durbin
AFCA Member


Joined: Fri Nov 2nd, 2012
Location:  
Status: 
Offline
HI All!
I am enjoying this thread... I think I am more confused than ever... One thing remains the same though... Yall have some very nice fans to discuss! So when I run across the elusive cone base... I promise to post pictures...    ;)
Geo...

Back To Top  

Current time is 05:50 am Page:  First Page Previous Page  ...  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  Next Page Last Page    
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Missing Link Found in Saint Louis Top



Beige Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2819 seconds (62% database + 38% PHP). 51 queries executed.