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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 05:24 am
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Dan Mitchell
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Hi guys!  Am new to the forum and in the process of restoring a Hunter Model C17 ceiling fan that is in quite good condition except for the wiring.  It also has the 3-speed porcelain rotary control which also appears to be in excellent condition.

I tagged all the wires before disassembly but found one wire whose termination point I could not identify.   I have attached a wiring diagram of my fan that indicates the mystery wire with ???   I am guessing that the wire connects to AC2 in my diagram but would like advice from anyone who knows for sure.  Either that or if someone has a wiring diagram, that would also do it.

As a note, I've documented the switch "make" action for the 3-speed switch -- and it is not AT ALL what I would expect in a modern 3-speed switch.  If anyone has an explanation for the convoluted way the "make" connections occur -- that would be a bonus.

Many thanks in advance for your help,

Dan

Attached Image (viewed 8954 times):

IMG_1517.gif

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 05:35 am
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Dan Mitchell
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Correction!!!   In my original post I suggested that I thought the unidentified wire went to AC2 in the diagram.  I meant to say AC1.  Sorry for the confusion.

Dan

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 02:25 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Dan,
You want the power in (hot) going to the L terminal on the switch (your 1 position).  Terminal 1 (your 2) to motor for high speed.  The next 2 to the coil as you have it.  Power out of coil (where you have the hot going) going to motor.
Your wiring might have worked, but you always want hot going to the switch for safety reasons.

Attached Image (viewed 1309 times):

IMG_1517 (1).jpg

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 04:31 pm
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David Hoatson
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The wiring that Tom shows is correct if the switch connects 1-2 for High, 1-3 for Med, and 1-4 for Low.

 

If the switch really connects 4-2 in the Off position, the fan will run Low. (Bad)

 

If the switch really connects 1-4 in the Low position, the fan will run Low. (Good)

 

If the switch really connects 1-2-4 in the Med position, the fan will run High. (Bad)

 

If the switch really connects 3-4 & 1-2 in the High position, the fan will run High. (Good)

 

Dan, are you sure the switch works this way?


I assume the switch was not connected to the coils when you ohmed the switch? Speed coils can have very low resistance that may look like a short.

Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 04:44 pm by David Hoatson

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 07:09 pm
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Dan Mitchell
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Tom:

Many thanks for your quick reply!  It's clear to me now that someone had rewired this along the way and that is why it was a bit incoherent.  I saw soldered wires and black tape and that suggests that someone had split the harness and then wired it back incorrectly.

I have also discovered the actual terminal numbers on the porcelain switch.  The terminals are actually designated 1,2,3,4 and there is no "L".  Given that, and your direction, I have redrawn my diagram.  Could you please review it one more time and see if you think it makes sense now?  The only part I get a bit confused on is the routing through the speed coil.  I'm trying to make sense of the resistance sums for Low, Med and High but something gets lost in the translation for me.

Thanks again,

Dan

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IMG_1519[1].JPG

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 07:55 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Could you post a photo of the snap switch with the cover off?
Something doesn't look right.  And it is best to start any fan in the full power mode and then have the slower speeds to follow.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 09:15 pm
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Dan Mitchell
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Here are the photos of the snap switch.  I am absolutely certain about the make/break patterns using my ohmmeter.  The switch seems in really great shape i.e. very tight and crisp as it moves from position to position.  So its hard for me to believe that the switch is making faulty "makes". Yet the make patterns that I've reported do seem odd to me.  I'll repeat them here again after a third test:

Position    Contacts being closed

Off         2,3
Low       1,2 
Med       1,2,3
High       2,4   and separately  1,3

Attached Image (viewed 955 times):

FanSwitch1.gif

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 11:09 pm
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Tom Dreesen
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Well Dan, that does not make any sense to me.  I may have an Arrow 3 speed snap switch, and I will check over the weekend, but every 3 speed snap switch I have wired had a pattern like I indicated above.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 11:28 pm
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David Hoatson
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Dan, your latest diagram looks like it should work.  A bit odd, though.  Normally, in High, the hot is connected directly to the stator.  In your case, the hot passes through both parts on the speed coil in parallel, a situation that will give you a higher speed than Med.

 

Most fans are wired something like this:

Attached Image (viewed 1534 times):

Wiring.png

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 Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2015 11:52 pm
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Dan Mitchell
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Yes David!  Your diagram makes so much sense!  That's exactly what I was expecting!

That's why when I tried to decipher the hack re-wiring that must have occurred in the past on my fan, the switch actions made it all the more bizarre.

I feel very comfortable now with the zone of possibilities I am in now with all the assistance from you and Tom.  (Thanks again so much)

I'll tell you that for my first exposure to an electro-mechanical device that is probably 100 years old, I am BLOWN away by the sturdiness of it all.  I'm greatly looking forward to getting it all back together and will let you know what happens.

And yes Tom -- If you have any more insight you can share with me on the Arrow 3-speed switch, I would most appreciate it.

Dan

 

 

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 Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2015 01:53 am
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Tom Dreesen
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Well maybe Dan.  I do have an Arrow, but I am almost sure it was not from a fan (some fans yes, but mostly appliances).
It can be turned either direction unlike most snap switches.  The porcelain knob is spring loaded and I think it just pulls off, but I have not tried to pull hard as it was just one in the box of snap switches I picked up somewhere and I have not messed with these before.Clearly there are switches such as the Levolier that can have some interesting crossovers, but most CFs (and not Hunter CFs in particular; their circulators fer sure used some) did not require such shenanigans.
Do note that is is numbered 1-4 as yours.  Impressed 180 degrees from the Arrow impression is what I suppose to be the part number: 3661.
Is this like yours?  Just pry the knob off?

Attached Image (viewed 977 times):

Arrow snap switch t n b.jpg

Last edited on Fri Jul 3rd, 2015 01:58 am by Tom Dreesen

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 Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2015 02:03 am
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David Hoatson
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I'm thinking that that is not a fan switch, but a heater switch. Your switch could turn on a low heating element, a medium heating element, or both in parallel for high. The original switch may have been destroyed sometime. Real fan switches are easily broken and very difficult to find replacements. 

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 Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2015 02:39 am
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Tom Dreesen
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David Hoatson wrote: I'm thinking that that is not a fan switch, but a heater switch. Your switch could turn on a low heating element, a medium heating element, or both in parallel for high. The original switch may have been destroyed sometime. Real fan switches are easily broken and very difficult to find replacements. 
I agree David.  I suspect a replacement and one past my pay grade in wiring.

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