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| GE Pancake Survey 1894-1908 | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 04:10 pm |
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1st Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member 
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It's been about six months since I have asked for your Pancake info for the survey. I've seen quite a few of you posting on the forum about your cake acquisitions, so I hope you will share your fan's information. I believe we have around 500 fans in the survey so far, hopefully more soon. All this information helps with showing patterns in the GE pancake's development. What I need are the fan's size, type and form letters, serial number, volts/cycles, stick or trunnion, number of struts, number of wings on blade. Is the blade hub cast or stamped brass? Is the cage 10 wire or 8, pierced or wrapped rear ring. If an 1899, does it have a cage badge? If a 1903 model, is the base full rib or half rib? If a 1905 model, is the trunnion stem 5/8ths" or 3/4" diameter? If '06 thru '08, what do the struts look like? Are there wing bolts or brass bolts holding motor to trunnion? Any odd characteristics? I appreciate all of your help with this. You can PM me your information or post it here. Thanks, Kim
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| Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 04:23 pm |
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2nd Post |
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David Kilnapp AFCA Member
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I'll send you all of that information by PM tomorrow Kim. I have five pancakes. If you like, I'll take pictures of all of the motor tags too for your survey. Expect the PM tomorrow.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 05:25 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Thank you David
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| Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 01:15 am |
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4th Post |
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David Kilnapp AFCA Member
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I just emailed you all the information on my five fans with ten accompanying pictures.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 06:08 am |
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5th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest 
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Cakes - - -Hey David, how about posting some photos of your collection?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 05:05 pm |
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6th Post |
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David Kilnapp AFCA Member
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OK, here you go:1903  1906 or '07   1907 16 "   1900   1905 (this one was restored by Ted Kaczor and is absolutely magnificent!)  
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| Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 09:38 pm |
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7th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest 
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Your second fan pictured is a 1907 David and identifiable by the unique struts used in 1907.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 2nd, 2019 09:43 pm |
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8th Post |
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David Kilnapp AFCA Member
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Thanks Steve.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 06:25 pm |
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9th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Your second fan pictured is a 1907 David and identifiable by the unique struts used in 1907.Serial number places it late 1906. 1907 serial number ranges according to the Prewitt Scripps/Lawrence Erickson survey are 277001-314500. That strut was introduced with the '06 second variant models. Earliest recorded serial number in the survey for the 2nd variant (Smooth motor) is 2627XX and the latest recorded S/N for a 1st variant '06 model is 2699XX. All models after that serial number are smooth motor models according to the current survey. The brass or steel clamp type struts are seen on 1906 models, along with the newer type strut. Here are the three 1906 12 inch trunnion mount examples in my collection... Attached Image (viewed 1833 times): Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 03:34 pm by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 06:41 pm |
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10th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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On the other hand, your 1903 third variant type AK form C has a serial number placing it just into the serial number range for 1904 (177501-205000). No difference between the two models except for the form letter C and D. .....The 1903 12 inch models type AK form C Attached Image (viewed 1844 times): Last edited on Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 06:47 pm by Kim Frank |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 07:33 pm |
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11th Post |
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Darrell Koller AFCA Member
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My one and only pancake: Year: 1904 Size: 12" Type: Form: SN: 214101 Volts: 100/115 Cycles: 60 Stick/Trunnion: Trunnion # Struts: 3 # Wings: 4 Stamped/Cast Hub: Stamped 10/8 Wire Cage: 8 (not original) Pierced/Wrapped Rear Ring: Wrapped Base Type: Half-ribbed 5/8" or 3/4# diameter trunnion stem: 3/4" Wing bolts or Slotted: Winged   Last edited on Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 11:28 pm by Darrell Koller |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 11:09 pm |
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12th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Thanks Darrell. Your motor tag places your fan well into the 1905 model year. I do see that the base has both a set screw and a thumb screw. That is characteristic of the 1905 model. Can you get a measurement of the trunnion stem going into the base. Wondering if it is 5/8ths inch or 3/4 inch?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 3rd, 2019 11:27 pm |
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13th Post |
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Darrell Koller AFCA Member
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Kim Frank wrote: Thanks Darrell. Your motor tag places your fan well into the 1905 model year. I do see that the base has both a set screw and a thumb screw. That is characteristic of the 1905 model. Can you get a measurement of the trunnion stem going into the base. Wondering if it is 5/8ths inch or 3/4 inch?Hey Kim, Stem is 3/4"
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| Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 02:13 am |
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14th Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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The reason I ask is somewhere around the 210XXX serial number, the trunnion stems changed from 5/8th to 3/4ths inch. I have added all the fans posted so far to the survey. Thanks, keep them coming.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 02:48 am |
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15th Post |
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David Kilnapp AFCA Member
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I wish I knew 1/10th of what you know Kim. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 04:56 am |
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16th Post |
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Bob Peshoff Guest 
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Kim...here is one I PM'd you about with some more information. The serial # is (according to the survey) into the 1905 model #'s 1904 12" Type AK Form D S/N 205342 Volts 100-115 60 Cycles Smaller tag Trunnion Mount Wing Bolts 3 Strut 4 Wings Stamped Brass Hub 8 Wire Pierced Cage Half Rib Base w/set screw only Porcelain Switch w/cast mounting tabs Steel strap on 5 speed regulating coil >> and the piece de resistance....it has a big knob :) Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 04:59 pm by Bob Peshoff |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 04:59 am |
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17th Post |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Kim Frank wrote: What I need are the fan's size, type and form letters, serial number, volts/cycles, stick or trunnion, number of struts, number of wings on blade. Is the blade hub cast or stamped brass? Is the cage 10 wire or 8, pierced or wrapped rear ring. If an 1899, does it have a cage badge? If a 1903 model, is the base full rib or half rib? 12", AK form C, 171952, 100/115 VAC 60 Cycles, trunnion, 3 strut, 4 wing cast hub, (sans original guard), full rib base.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 4th, 2019 06:52 am |
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18th Post |
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Bob Peshoff Guest
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1903 12" Type AB Form C S/N 151341 Volts 100-115 60 Cycles Stick Mount Full Ribbed Base 4 Strut 4 Wings Cast Brass Hub 10 Wire Pierced Cage Porcelain Switch in base Brass strap on 5 speed regulating coil Straight strut at 6 o'clock Last edited on Mon Mar 4th, 2019 05:00 pm by Bob Peshoff |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 03:50 am |
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19th Post |
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Tristan Crider Guest 
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1906 12" S/N 262234 V 100-115 60 cycles 3 Steel struts 4 wings stamped hub 8 wire guard
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 03:18 pm |
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20th Post |
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Larry Miceli Guest 
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Kim, I'm sure you already have Blue Belle's information? (1903, 12", Stick Mount, 1/2 ribbed base) If not, I'll send the serial number and pictures tonight. Larry
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 04:24 pm |
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21st Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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1900 tag   1900 tag 1Attached Image (viewed 1642 times):
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 04:25 pm |
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22nd Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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 1901 TagAttached Image (viewed 1732 times):
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 04:26 pm |
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23rd Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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Last photos are 1901
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| Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 04:28 pm |
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24th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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1901 tag2 
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 10:33 pm |
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25th Post |
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Kevin Lee Clark AFCA Member 
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1903 Pancake Information Size: 12 inch Type: AK Form: E Serial No. : 203635 Volts: 110/115 Cycles: 60 Trunnion Mount, 3/4 inch Base: Half Ribbed Hub: Cast Wings: 4 Cage: Missing Struts: All 3 Missing Brass Wing Bolts Base has both set screw and thumb screw Attached Image (viewed 1574 times): Last edited on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 10:39 pm by Kevin Lee Clark |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 10:43 pm |
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26th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Kim, what's the deal with Kevin's pancake tag? Looks like a Form E but there is no such letter and his fan and tag are from 1904 which is Form D. Maybe a misstamp and, now, not clearly readable. Early 1904 used a flat brass tag, not the etched tag like Kevin's that is usually seen.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 11:27 pm |
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27th Post |
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Kevin Lee Clark AFCA Member
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Closer Look. Appears to be an overstamp as on Richard’s fan. Attached Image (viewed 1493 times): Last edited on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 11:36 pm by Kevin Lee Clark |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 12:39 am |
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28th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Kevin, does your fan's base have the thumbscrew AND the slotted screw next to it on the base as you see in this photo? I've always taken the thumbscrew to be a 1905 feature but, with only the slotted screw, from 1904. Your serial number is very late info the 1904 year, possibly the fan was held over for a 1905 model and the tag stamped E even if there was no "official" Form E in 1905, no form letter at all until about 1913 or 14.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 12:47 am |
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29th Post |
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Kevin Lee Clark AFCA Member
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Steve,Yes it has both, exactly as in your photo. Thank you very much for your input. Kevin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 01:57 am |
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30th Post |
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Richard Daugird AFCA Member 
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Kevin Lee Clark wrote: Closer Look. Appears to be an overstamp as on Richard’s fan.HA! If are talking about me, I just read your mind.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 02:01 am |
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31st Post |
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Richard Daugird AFCA Member
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 02:05 am |
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32nd Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Here is what a 1905 GE motor tag looks like. Exceptions seem to exist but very few. Note that there is no "field" in which to stamp a Form letter as they were no longer used in 1905 for almost ten years. Another 1905 tag with a serial number much closer to yours Kevin. 
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 04:19 pm |
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33rd Post |
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Kim Frank AFCA Member
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Not sure what I can add to this but I look at certain criteria for a given model year, along with the tag info, to form an opinion as to what the fan is. Because the "E" overstamp of "D" has shown up now on two 1904 motor tags, I can only assume that they were done in anticipation of 1905. The 1904 visual cues I look for are half ribbed base, single set screw in neck, 8 wire cage, stamped brass hub blade. The motor tag with a s/n under 205XXX, type AB or AK, and form D. Please note that there are exceptions to the s/n's in every year thru 1905 in the survey. For 1905, I look for a tag that gives only volts, cycles, and serial number. Half ribbed base will have a thumb screw and a set screw, blade and cage same as 1904. Somewhere around s/n 210XXX, the trunnion stem changes from 5/8ths to 3/4 inch. There is also a change to a thumb screw in the trunnion to hold motor position. The main thing to remember is "Never say never." Steve has pics of a 1903 with all the characteristics of a 1905. While we are on the subject, all of you collectors who have acquired Pancakes in the last few months, post your information here so it can be added to the survey..... Happy Thanksgiving.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 07:07 pm |
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34th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Kim Frank wrote: "Never say never. Steve has pics of a 1903 with all the characteristics of a 1905."
from another example this shows the two set screws at the top of the base, first used in 1905 models. Last edited on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 09:12 pm by Steve Stephens |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 07:20 pm |
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35th Post |
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Joel Schmid AFCA Member
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Hey Kim,I’ll post mine as soon as it’s completed. Getting close.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 05:11 am |
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36th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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Just won this, will send tag info - - looks like a 1900? TYPE UI . . .  Attached Image (viewed 1385 times):
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 05:21 am |
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37th Post |
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Steven P Dempsey Guest
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Is that a 1899 cage on a 1900 Cake?
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 06:44 am |
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38th Post |
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Steve Stephens Guest
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Steven P Dempsey wrote: Is that a 1899 cage on a 1900 Cake?The cage is a 1900 one with the larger rear ring. 1899 rear ring was the same diameter as the front ring. But the cage sure does look like the early 1899 before the GE badge was used. Look at the rear of the small open ring and you will see what I think it some remains of solder that once held on the GE badge which must have come detached. Although I have not removed an early (1899-1900) GE cage badge I think they all had the early small open ring under the badge.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 04:05 pm |
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39th Post |
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Ted Kaczor AFCA Member 
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Sorry Kim for not updating your survey for a such a long time. I'll start with earliest in my collection, GE CO. Pancake N0. 1536, VOLTS 104, CYCLES 125. GE CO. Pancake N0. 5433,VOLTS 104, CYCLES 125. GE CO. Pancake N0. 21533 VOLTS 104, CYCLES 60.FORM E5 TYPE UI. I'll fallow up with more and more as I get to it. It is not easy to take them down from the shelves with an arthritic hands, and now you have to dust them off and certainly power up and put them back up. THANK YOU KIM FOR DOING THIS, it is tremendous task, It is going to be the most valuable and important document for a Pancake collectors and not only. Should be published as a nice book/brochure printed by our club. AWESOME. Last edited on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 10:30 pm by Ted Kaczor |
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29th, 2019 09:56 pm |
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40th Post |
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Joel Schmid AFCA Member
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OK - My pancake : 1902 TYPE AD Form B - 12 inch, 110 V/60 cycles serial number = 141724 (Kim prolly already knows this since he supplied my tag - original was missing) Cage is not original - new repo made by Ted Kaczor  Last edited on Sat Nov 30th, 2019 02:30 am by Joel Schmid |
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