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WTB: Brass Blade Fan, Cast Iron If Possible  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sat Dec 27th, 2014 12:12 pm
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Cory Baughn
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Well, after finishing my grandmother's fan I am seriously hankering to start on another one that I plan on keeping for myself. 


I really like GE fans as well as Emerson's and R&M's, but anything including Diehl or Western Electric or whatever would be okay with me as long as it has non-bent brass blades, and even a brass cage too would be great if possible. I think the challenge of polishing a cage would be great! I am a fan of oscillators as well, but that isn't completely necessary. I also much prefer cast fan due to their heft and overall strength. Then again if there is a stamped steel fan out there that is nice I am fine with that too, just prefer one over the other a bit at this point. 


I am not looking to spend a large sum of money so a little rough is okay. That is the name of the game I'll have to play until I get out of college in a couple years. If you have something and don't mind throw up a picture here and shoot me a price too. I have been on eBay a lot here recently and everything I have found that I like is crazy expensive. I swear when I was looking at them months ago they were half the price they are right now.  


Thanks fellas, looking forward to getting a fan that I can enjoy everyday too. I am suddenly jealous of my grandmother's! I may move in with her so I can enjoy it too! Ha. 

Last edited on Sat Dec 27th, 2014 12:27 pm by Cory Baughn

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 Posted: Sat Dec 27th, 2014 08:55 pm
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William Dunlap
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Cory,
Sometimes it can be tough to get someone to release their grip on their fans. After all, it's the Antique Fan COLLECTORS asc. not SELLERS. So persevere, you'll eventually score something.
Around these parts, folks tend to like robust cast iron fans, but don't 

be fooled. Some of the best fans are stamped steel. It's just that you need to up your skill sets some to work on them.

Cheers,
Bill

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 04:39 am
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Cory Baughn
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Yes, I just know that I have seen some great fans for sale on the forums, was hoping that maybe someone had one that they were going to let go but just hadn't posted it yet.

And yes sir, I haven't had the chance to mess with a stamped one yet but hopefully I have the skills to do it. I still have a lot to learn with working on old fans. I may mess a few things up, but I guess that is how we all learn and teach ourselves!

Thanks for the help Bill, great forum we have here!

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 04:41 am
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Cory Baughn
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This is a kidney fan if I'm not wrong, any help would be appreciated. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Oscillating-GE-General-Electric-Fan-Brass-Blade-Rare-Brass-3-Speed-Works/181619134817?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D52455af8a781439cbdf6680accdf4357%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20131003132420%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181623319734&rt=nc
It is missing the gearbox, which from what I understand might be hard to find. If anyone has one that they would sell I may buy this thing. I like the kidneys a lot. 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 05:16 am
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Tom Morel
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Don't buy that fan. Kidney-less kidneys are a waste of money unless you have the parts on hand. I always believe in buying the best example that you can afford over the incomplete, cheaper one, especially when you're just starting out.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 05:22 am
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Austin Ko
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Kidneys are great when they have their gearboxes but once they loose that gearbox, you might as well get a BMY. I think a Tank or a BMY would be a good choice or the AOU loophandle.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 07:37 am
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Cory Baughn
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I love tank fans of any brand, but I am not too versed on the BMYs and SMY fans.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 08:04 am
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Steve Stephens
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One of the best of the best is the R&M 1404.   I would say it's got everything better then a BM or SMY and a Westy Tank if it isn't as good looking (maybe?) as the tank.  Great speed intervals, the best tilt mechanism maybe of ANY fan but they are not all that common.

http://earlyfans.blogspot.com/2011/10/robbins-myers-list-1404-desk-fans-1911.html

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CIMG5044.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 08:17 am
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Cory Baughn
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I love those fans, and yes they are pretty pricey from the ones I have found. I am a huge admirer of the R&M badge that is stamped and soldered into the cage. I like the one on the right as well, but the two on the left, there is something about them that is beautiful to my eyes. The huge base on them appealing to me as well. Look very chunky.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:28 am
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William Dunlap
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:wondering:

Last edited on Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:28 am by William Dunlap

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:28 am
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William Dunlap
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I am another admirer of the R&M fans. I only have two at present but I loved restoring them. The individual parts are very well made, almost like jewelry. They have powerful motors and a unique sound. I tell folks they sound like lawn mowers......
Also, many of them were pin-striped which I like since I consider myself adept at doing that. (I learned doing vintage motorcycle paint jobs.)
Most of them are not priced out of sight like so many early Emersons and GE's, although some of the earliest ones fetch high dollars.
I'd like to add a couple of Ge loop handle fans to the hoard, too. A two star would do just fine. They tend to have cheaper paint on them which requires re-painting. No problemo.
Absolutely any Emerson could easily find a new home with me. I am particularly fond of the APG government fan even though it falls outside the Emerson norm and has two bearings instead of one.
Decisions, decisions. Wonderful quandary to  be in.

Cheers,Bill

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:37 am
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Cory Baughn
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To throw this in there, I am also a fan of the Emerson Seagull for some strange reason. When I saw the one that Ron May restored I was sold on them. Would be nice to be able to do a restoration on an oscillating version. I am not as big of a fan of the non-oscillating version.


I know they aren't popular or very well made compared to a cast iron fan, but I guess that's what makes collecting unique. We each have our own things that attract out eyes to them. 

Last edited on Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:38 am by Cory Baughn

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:43 am
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Roark Anderson
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I just sold a nice brass bell oscillator a few days ago to bad I didn't see this thread sooner.  

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:44 am
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Cory Baughn
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That is a total bummer! I am a fan of the brass bells. They are good looking fans.


I have found a few fans, although I am not sure if they are worth it. Here is a GE that I found, but I have no idea what could be wrong with the oscillating mechanism. They are so simple inside there that it must be a stripped gear from what I have seen in pictures of other GE gearboxes -


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281534229882?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l4448&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI281534229882.N1.S1.M1288



With this fan I am not sure if the Emerson Jr is desirable, but the little 8" size seems very unique -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMERSON-B-Jr-8-inch-O-Early-FAN-/221642484299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339aebea4b

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:48 am
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Roark Anderson
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I have one of those little 10" juniors mounted on my wall. It's a wonderful little fan and a good runner. Mine get's hot fast though.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:51 am
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Roark Anderson
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Here's what you need. This is a really cool fan.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331419559494?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This one is much more reasonably priced and also pretty neat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281539512479?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 11:36 am
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Cory Baughn
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I wish that little Emerson had brass blades. The only thing that would make me iffy about buying it. I am such a fan of brass. Awesome stuff to work with.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 03:15 pm
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Craig Robbins
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Take your time and find the one you really want. I will keep my eye out for ya bud  :) I'm still trying to work a deal with that guy with the locker full of fans. If you look up my old posts, you can see them. Cya...Craig............. P.S. look for local yard sales/thrift stores/flea markets

Last edited on Sun Dec 28th, 2014 03:17 pm by Craig Robbins

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 03:47 pm
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Fred Berry
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If you like stationary fans and since you are a 'fan' of GE, go for a BMY. These have large motors, as large as those on Westy tank motors. BMY's are all cast iron, motor, base, trunnion, have brass cages and brass blades, brass acorns on the motor, brass trunnion screws, really nice fans and extremely reliable. They come up often on fleaBay and sell fairly reasonable, $250 $350 price range unrestored. 08' - 09' models have centrifugal-start motors, while 10' and up have phase shift motors. You can get BMY's in 4-wing or 6-wing. The large motor used in BMY fans was the most popular motor coveted by other fan companies for use in some of their models, Jandus, Eck, Diehl, Hunter, FWEW, heck, even Westinghouse, GE's biggest rival, used a GE BMY motor sidewinder oscillator as one of their own models! This was a very popular, reliable electric motor. I recommend this above and beyond all others as your first fan. You will love it.

GE's pancake motor fans are reliable too, but I do not recommend: Their prices are way too high for a starter fan, and parts for them are also very expensive.

An SMY (Small Motor Yoke) uses a similar motor as found in the loop-handle oscillators, but in a stationary form.

A loop-handle star or brass bell is a good starter too, but getting them with brass cages may be difficult.

Personally, I am a big fan of the very early Century skeletal-motor fans. These always came with brass cage and blades, and the motors have totally open end bells so you can watch the internals in action, hence the collector nickname 'skeletal motor'. The earliest had cast iron base to go with the cast iron motors, also the motors were centrifugal start. Later skeletals had drawn steel bases plus the motors were phase-shift. All skeletal motors were cast iron, and they all, centrifugal start or phase shift, have a neat magnetic, musical hum to the motor. Only problem with Century fans is that they were mainly used in large offices and factories, hence they are often well-worn when they come up for sale on eBay. Century skeletals were not used in private residences very much, though Century did make a 6-wing skeletal fan, these are quite rare, known 6-wingers can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Buuuuut, when you restore a skeletal, you will have one of the most reliable running fans known. I have run mine for entire summer's without ever turning them off...even oiling them "on the run". Skeletal Century's also were also the only other fans besides GE pancakes to have 5-speeds. My avatar picture here is the rear end of a Century skeletal fan.

My recommendation for the Century company is only for their early cast iron 5-speed fans, their later 3-speed fans were mostly pot metal and the worst pot metal castings of any fan company, notorious for crumbling into pieces by themselves.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 05:43 pm
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David Hoatson
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I had one of those water powered fans. Sold it 'cus it ran hot. Should have hooked it up to the cold water, I guess. 
:P

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 07:05 pm
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Paul Alexander
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Cory, You might have a look at this one:

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=19228390

Still 10 hours left on the auction but this is goodwill not eBay! You might have a chance on it if interested!

Good luck!

Paul

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jandus1.JPG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 08:48 pm
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Roark Anderson
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Makes me wonder who donated a Jandus fan to Goodwill. :P

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:30 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Roark Anderson wrote: This one is much more reasonably priced and also pretty neat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281539512479?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Quite interesting.  See how the cage has been reworked or repaired and the missing original flat struts made new with wire struts?   

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:39 pm
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Steve Stephens
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Cory Baughn wrote: Here is a GE that I found, but I have no idea what could be wrong with the oscillating mechanism. They are so simple inside there that it must be a stripped gear from what I have seen in pictures of other GE gearboxes -


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281534229882?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l4448&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI281534229882.N1.S1.M1288



With this fan I am not sure if the Emerson Jr is desirable, but the little 8" size seems very unique -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMERSON-B-Jr-8-inch-O-Early-FAN-/221642484299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339aebea4b

I bet that GE brass bell may be ok but the seller has not been able to turn the oscillator knob to the on position.  Those knobs can get so tight that it takes pliers or something to grip the knob well to get it to loosen and turn.  But, maybe not...

The B-Jr is not as quality as the Jr and some run quite hot but I think the 8" B-Jr runs cooler.  Nice fans.  The older Jr. also was made in an 8" oscillator, very nice fans most of the Jrs. and B-Jrs but not up to the higher quality and more features of the high grade Emersons including the 8" and 9" fan.  Love the 19644 especially for its three speeds, small size, all iron and brass, and runs pretty quietly.

Many GEs have a characteristic "GE whine" which I find intrudes into my peace of mind when they are running.  GE pancakes and R&M cast iron fans do not do that.   But I would recommend a GE loop handle, even a BMY and you can see if you like them.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 09:53 pm
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James Guinn
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Tanks are great fans but you may have completion :D.  I have 2 of the r and m tanks pictured by Steve and they're great!!

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 10:13 pm
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Steve Stephens
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James Guinn wrote: ...but you may have completion :D.  
I think you mean he may have trouble in the completion of his bid on ebay- and winning the fan- because of competition??  Eventually the competition moves on to other things (usually) and prices return to normal.  Not with GE pancakes though and, why do I think this, not with most other iron and brass fans anymore?   Supply and demand.  People need to move on to collecting the "tin fans" of the 30s through 50s.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2014 10:16 pm
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James Guinn
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Steve Stephens wrote: James Guinn wrote: ...but you may have completion :D.  
I think you mean he may have trouble in the completion of his bid on ebay- and winning the fan- because of competition??  Eventually the competition moves on to other things (usually) and prices return to normal.  Not with GE pancakes though and, why do I think this, not with most other iron and brass fans anymore?   Supply and demand.  People need to move on to collecting the "tin fans" of the 30s through 50s.


iPhone misspelled competition, lol

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 12:24 am
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Chris A. Campbell
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If you want a small inexpensive brass bladed fan watch for GE Whizs. Oscillating and stationary. Simple to restore and cost around $100

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 07:43 am
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Cory Baughn
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I found this Westinghouse, but they said the oscillator isn't working. Is there a common part in there that goes bad? I really like the look of this fan.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321628029686?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here is an Emerson, but it is missing the oscillator link bar and what looks like to me to be an oil cup above the oscillator. If I'm not wrong these are impossible to find because of them being an odd size. I might be totally off on all of that though. I think I could offer $225 and get it. My budget is going to have to go up, but I think dad will loan me the cash till I get back to work. He likes to see me working on stuff bringing it back to life.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1920s-Emerson-RARE-Model-29666-Electric-Fan-12-6-Brass-Parker-Blades-/321627274848?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae27abe60

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 08:08 am
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Steve Stephens
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The Westy is a 1912-13 model where you have to remove the stator to change the head wire unlike (sometimes) the later models that have a small port to get into.  There are pot metal parts (bearing carriers front and rear and neck, maybe a few other parts) that can be a problem.  Parts should be available some.  A good design but hard to work on.  If the oscillator linkage is worn or broken you'd need more parts.  Price seems high for that fan considering condition.

The 29666 was made only one year, 1922, before the 71666 replaced it.  The missing oiler would probably not be too hard to find, the osc. linkage I don't know if it would be hard to not so hard.  That one has a terrible "restoration" but looks like it would re-restore nicely.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 09:35 am
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William Dunlap
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Go for the Emerson. Get a promise that they'll pack it right. Check out George's Softpak (registered trademark:D) method and suggest that they pack it that way.
I've got an earlier version of this fan but basically it looks identical to it. A very fine daily runner.

It's a winner!

Cheers,Bill

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 10:04 am
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Cory Baughn
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Bill, look at the collar thing on the base right below the motor. Looks like it has a chunk missing from it. Do you see that too? Is is chipped badly like I think it is?
And pot metal is a no go for me Mr. Stephens. After working on an old radio today and busting the needle indicator for the channel after applying finger pressure, I am no longer interested in owning ANYTHING pot metal. 

Last edited on Mon Dec 29th, 2014 10:06 am by Cory Baughn

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 04:48 pm
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Fred Berry
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Cory, you are correct, those Emerson collars were made of pot metal and often broke.  The collar on this one is broken as you see.

The 29666 was the last of the large motor Emerson residence fans, though the large motor was used more on the huge 16" models.

Speaking of which, I recommend your first fan to be 12". 16" fans are too large, too noisy, and move way too much air for use in a house, plus they are hard to store because of their large size.

Anything below 12" is too small, though some 10" fans like the Westinghouse Darth Vader move more air than many larger fans. 8" and below are too small, they are fun to restore and run as novelties, but do not move enough air to circulate a room. Fans of that small size were meant as personal fans.

12" is perfect, especially a 6-wing residence fan like the 29666. TJ Downy has made replacement Emerson collars out of steel or aluminum, if I remember correctly. I think Darryl Hudson can make the oscillator arm. Emerson fans are well known for their quality motors which are the most reliable ever made. The distinctive looking 6-wing blade on their residence fans like this 29666 are over the top in looks, one member here referred to them as looking "like a wall of brass". One problem is the cage, which is steel. I know you are looking for a brass cage. Anyhow, large Emerson motors are quite user friendly to work on, and the 6-wingers like this one have a wonderful soft 'white sound' when running, making them good for 'sleep fans'.

The Westinghouse fan here would be a challenge to restore, plus it has alot of pot metal which you do not like.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 10:41 pm
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William Dunlap
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Cory,
Did you make an offer? If you do, base it on the parts you have to buy to get it up to snuff. Darryl has aluminum collars for it at I think 45$ each and he may even have an arm for it. No worries, someone here will have one. Expect 10 or 20$ tops for one.

Cheers,Bill

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 Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2014 11:34 pm
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Jeff Whitfield
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What about an R&M gearback oscillator ... List No. 1153 (12-inch ) or List No. 1159 (16-inch)?
These are cast iron -- with cast iron oscillator boxes and without the potmetal of GE and Emerson of the same era. They have brass cages, too, but cast iron struts. These fans, pricewise, are comparable to the 29666 in the ebay ad and, IMO, they're better than the 29666. You get more to play with in a restoration.
There's the R&M List No. 3600 (10-inch blade) fan. It's got brass blades, cast iron cage construction and struts whose material is either cast iron or maybe steel. I can't remember.It also has the cast iron oscillator box. Costwise, this fan is less expensive in the $100+ neighorhood, but it's stout and even has brushes.
Potmetal stinks, but GE potmetal is o.k. GE loophandle fans -- Those have potmetal boxes, thick ones, too, and they don't seem to break as often as the exquisitely lousy potmetal of Century fans. Emerson potmetal gearboxes are o.k., too.
The GE Kidney oscillators have those fat potmetal oscillator boxes and those tend to have hidden cracks. I'd think buying a GE Kidney oscillator from a club member would be a far better bet than Ebay. Seems that Kidney oscillators sometimes have a tough time trekking through shipping and arriving unbroken. 

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 Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2014 05:26 am
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Cory Baughn
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I did not make an offer Mr. Dunlap, not yet. He was trying to tell me that he would throw in shipping and the total be $299 but that is just too much for me for a broken fan. I can hold out as long as a month I feel like to wait on something that is complete. For $200-$220 I would've pounced I think.

And Jeff I really like the R&M gear back, I believe that is what Craig had when I went over to his house to have him show me how to fix headwires and have him fix mine on the GE I redid. I will do research right now on the 3600 too. Thank you for the tip on those, I wouldn't have thought that I could've found an R&M gear back for my price range without serious luck.

And yes, pot metal seems to be my bane after that radio. It was a Zenith H723Z, nice looking thing and even has AM/FM from 1950 but man was it a booger to get apart with the huge pot metal indicator needle.

Looking forward to anything and I guess the hunt can be part of the fun with fans. I guess if they all landed in our laps there would be no story behind it, and I'm getting to meet a lot of new folks thru the search which is the bigger win to me.

Last edited on Tue Dec 30th, 2014 09:33 am by Cory Baughn

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 Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2014 06:13 am
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Steve Stephens
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R&M 3600 is a very nice oscillating fan although it has a stamped steel motor and base.  The 3000 is the non-oscillator version.   I don't think either have pot metal.

A GE 2 or 3 star from 1915 (Form R) and maybe 1916 Form S is all cast iron with no pot  metal if you don't get the early one with the pot metal oscillator wheel.  Gearboxes on GEs 1915-24 are all cast iron.  

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 Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2014 09:52 am
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Cory Baughn
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I actually had someone PM me about a 2 star they had a couple days ago but haven't heard back yet. I like the 3 star better but 2 is good enough for a first fan!

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 Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2014 06:51 pm
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Steve Stephens
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The mid to later 2 stars are usually steel cages, some with a mix of steel and brass wires so check that before buying.    I think there are also some unusual stator winding designs in some of the late teens GEs.

Last edited on Tue Dec 30th, 2014 06:51 pm by Steve Stephens

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 Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2014 09:44 pm
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Cory Baughn
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ROBBINS-amp-MYERS-BLACK-BRASS-039-STANDARD-034-1404-WORKING-FAN-/361161806546?nma=true&si=RRzYgTocV3J%252FKs9fQsGeKJSXJYE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dude said he'd take $350 shipped for it. That is way, way more than I wanted to spend really, but if that is like a smoking good deal I don't think I could pass it up. I could even pass the deal onto one of you fellas if I ended up not being able to afford it if it's like a super good deal.

Let me know though and I will do the deal if it is and figure out what to do later!

Also, is that fan too nice to tear down and restore?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221647107666?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Also found this but it need an ID tag. Does anyone produce Westy tank ID plates?

Last edited on Tue Dec 30th, 2014 09:48 pm by Cory Baughn

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AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Buy-Sell-Trade > WTB: Brass Blade Fan, Cast Iron If Possible Top



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