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Todd Armentrout
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Hello all. I was hoping for some guidance. I still consider myself a beginner. Like many I am curious about the age of this old GE although I think I have an idea. More importantly, and to the point, I am looking for current guidance. Originally I thought this to be DC. It does have a commutator and brushes. I am on the fence though. Incase my photo does not post the tag reads:
TYPE/DO
FORM/AD1
SPEC/ 2 720 78 1
CAT/60559
VOLTS/110
CYCLES/D0

Interestingly the blades are brass plated. The base metal is non ferrous.

Any guidance is greatly appreciated. I will post more photos if this one posts as it should. 

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photos of the tag

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another photo of the tag

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Todd Armentrout
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side view

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blade

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So I guess my question is this AC or DC? Any thoughts?

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Anybody? 

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I'm not much of a GE guy, and maybe someone that knows GE fans better can chime in. But it does appear you have a DC power fan. I haven't seen a fan of your style with the brushes NOT be a DC power fan. Looks like you have a good project fan! Would be great to see it brought back to its original glory. 
Curious if the CYCLES should read "DC" and not "D0".

James Henderson
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It is 110V DC. You will need to place a bridge rectifier in line to run it.

Todd Armentrout
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opened up

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another one

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Todd Armentrout
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commutator

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under the hood

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Todd Armentrout
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Patrick Ray wrote: I'm not much of a GE guy, and maybe someone that knows GE fans better can chime in. But it does appear you have a DC power fan. I haven't seen a fan of your style with the brushes NOT be a DC power fan. Looks like you have a good project fan! Would be great to see it brought back to its original glory. 
Curious if the CYCLES should read "DC" and not "D0".
 looking a bit closer under a cheap microscope it appears to possibly be a victim of poorly detailed stamping, etching or whatever the process. What do you think?

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Todd Armentrout
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James Henderson wrote: It is 110V DC. You will need to place a bridge rectifier in line to run it.Not to spark a debate but, since electrical engineering is not necessarily my area of expertise, would using some sort of corded transformer be safe? Could such a thing even be had? I have only dabbled in cosmetically salvaging a few AC motored, older shop tools. Walker Turner, Boice Crane, etc.

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The way the switch is set up (with the tower wrapped in wire) that is a DC model. And good catch with the stamping denoting it is a DC model. 

Thomas Peters
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In the ninth post, "bridge rectifier" is mentioned. Search that term here in the forums. It has been discussed previously.
There will be both suggestions of which one to buy, and how to wire it up.

Good luck!

Todd Armentrout
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Thank you vey much for your reply. I have found assistance quite lacking locally. Maybe I do not travel in the correct circles and I am not looking in the right places. To my knowledge motor shops to canvass for advice are almost non existent locally. The only shop I know of locally closed as the gentleman was probably in his 80s if I had to guess. So since I am a do it myself kind of guy here we are. The problem lies in the fact that at my skill level I am more of a cosmologist. I have become rather good at putting lipstick on proverbial pigs. 
I guess the question now is how to get this thing running. I believe some testing may be in order first though. Firstly, after some ohm testing what would be considered an acceptable meg ohm value for these coils? Is there anything, procedurally, I want to consider when ohm testing this that would differ from the AC motors I have? Secondly, I do not see amperage information anywhere, does anyone know what would be acceptable?

It's not a fan but, this is my current project which is still underway.

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Richard Daugird
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Sorry I can't help you on your electrical issue, but wow what a cool shop you have!

Todd Armentrout
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Thank you for the compliment. My end goal is to have everything completely serviced, restored and ready to use. Pass everything on to my son eventually. If I can get this fan figured out properly it may end up a wedding present for him. On a different note I did some testing on the armature and ohm readings on the commutator seem to be just fine. So that is a step in the right direction. 

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So after some insulation testing it looks like this fan may definitely be a contender. I think with a little cleaning, some new wiring and varnish along with a good old valve adjustment, rotor and distributor cap there is hope. Someone mentioned the installation of a bridge rectifier. Does anyone have photos of one installed on this fan that I could reference? I'm feeling my way through this and information is out there but quite difficult to come by as it relates to this specific DC fan. Also I'm finding the number of folks able or willing to offer guidance is somewhat limited for unknown reasons. On a different note I thought originally the blade may have been brass coated. After some gentle investigation I think it may be solid brass. 

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Richard Daugird wrote: Sorry I can't help you on your electrical issue, but wow what a cool shop you have!
Very nice shop but way too clean!

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Thank you for the compliment. This is the other side of the shop. It does get quite dirty. A dust collection system and box fans with house hvac filters for air filtration makes for easier clean up

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Todd Armentrout
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Question. Would the "DC" determination be obtained from the CAT number of 60559? I believe I found a stamping mishap on the tag and I believe it is DC. Had I not found this stamping issue could the correct current be obtained from the CAT? It seems I saw a catalog somewhere that listed the above cat number, different form, as DC. Am I in the ball park or significantly misguided?

William Dunlap
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What typically determines whether a motor is strictly DC is the field coil cores. If they are laminated, the motor is usually a universal motor which will run on AC or DC. If the core is solid, the fan cannot run on AC and it is a strictly DC motor. I usually install a bridge rectifier in line which makes them all universal motors. They run smoother also.Others will have to address any model significance from the numbers.
Cheers,
Bill

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Thank you for the reply Bill. I guess my next question to the folks reading this would be which bridge rectifier, specifically, would I want for this.  Now I know there have been several posts where this has been discussed and folks have been guided to one or the other. I ask this because some of those posts are older. Most of what I have seen comes from Radio Shack, which to my knowledge is no longer. I could be wrong on that and please correct me if I am not on point. Also since there is more than one available on the internet I ask to determine if one seems better suited than another. I would hate to put one on and a year later have it fail when all I had to do is ask. I don't believe in going in to something blind and stepping into the dark. I like to be as informed as possible so I can plan ahead.

William Dunlap
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Search ebay for KBU4J BRIDGE RECTIFIER 4 AMP 600V LOW PROFILE FAIRCHILD (5 PER LOT)You can use 3 amp but I like these because they have a mounting hole.
Cheers,
Bill

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Bill. I can't express my gratitude enough. Thank you. I f this is the piece you are referencing I will hit the go fast button. Now I am curious if anyone has any input as to testing the speed coil. 

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William Dunlap
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Dems da ones.

William Dunlap
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The speed coil is resistance wire wound around an insulator, like asbestos. I prefer fiberglass for obvious reasons. There should be a couple of ohms readings across the coil, like 100 and 200. I've no idea what ohms but it will be likely in that range.
The resistance wire is essentially stainless steel which has issues with regards to soldering. If you get no readings, or very high ones, re-solder the connections to the switch before you do anything else.
These can be rewound quite easily at home.
Cheers,
Bill

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Please correct me if I'm wrong but would I test between the bare wires and power input/cord?

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William Dunlap
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Attach your ohmmeter to the switch contacts (the nuts you see there. Between the first and second nut, you should see xx ohms and between the first and third, you should see maybe twice xx.

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pic of ohm reading

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another

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last one

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William Dunlap
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I think that the last ohm reading is beyond the set scale. Go to 2k and see what it reads. I think there is high resistance there.
Cheers,
Bill

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I don't have a reference to compare these numbers to. Can anyone tell me if they are in the ball park? Bill. You, good sir, are a life saver! Mahalo my friend. The bridge rectifiers are in the mail and should be here in a few days. Any recommendations for wire size? Usually I just order a kit from Vintage Wire and Supply. 

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William Dunlap
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I think those numbers will work just fine.
Cheers,
Bill

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Taking a look under the tape. What do you all think?

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First of all, clean your connections on the switch and tighten up all of the fasteners. 

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getting there

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Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2021 03:33 pm by Todd Armentrout

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still polishing

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Not perfect but better than it was

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Don't mind the reference dots. They will come off. In the photo it still looks a bit oily, but really its pretty clean and dry. I ordered some 3m glass cloth electrical tape and some hemp string for the coils. I have a stock of EL600 insulating varnish on hand. Any thoughts? 

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I thought I had a broken wire. Looks like it was just a fiber. I guess this cheapo microscope is earning its place in the shop. From what I can tell everything looks decent so far.

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Apologies. It has been a bit since my last. This is one of the coils. Cleaned up a bit with several coats of varnish. I have it drying on a low voltage and low amp setting. My plan is to wrap with 3m scotch 27 tape. I would love other suggestions as I really don't want to bugger this up at this point.  

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I do have a question regarding the rectifier. Once the plug end is wired in does it matter which prong goes to which side of the switch? Hopefully my photo attaches. Apologies in advance if it does not.

Attachment: wiring.pdf (Downloaded 87 times)

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I normally run the positive to the switch bat, but it really doesn't matter. If your fan runs backwards, just switch the brush leads. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right first time...
Cheers,
Bill

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Bill, you sir, are a saint. Thank you for enduring my many questions. I do want to make sure I understand though. You are saying that it doesn't really matter which of these goes to which. If it runs backwards simply reverse the connections and I should be on track, correct? Also do you have any input as to wrapping coils in the 3m scotch 27?

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Last edited on Tue Oct 19th, 2021 10:06 pm by Todd Armentrout

William Dunlap
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You've got it right, I think. No idea about the 3M product. I use a cloth loom wrap on field coils, fiberglass cloth on speed coils.Cheers,
Bill

Last edited on Wed Oct 20th, 2021 12:13 am by William Dunlap

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Probably not the neatest job of wrapping, but it was the first. Here is the ohm reading. Could anyone tell me if I am in the ball park please.

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Last edited on Wed Oct 20th, 2021 05:14 pm by Todd Armentrout

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meg ohms at 125

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and at 250

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Lane Shirey
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3m friction tape would have been a better choice to wrap the coils in than a vinyl tape.  You should be ok because I wouldn’t expect the DC field to get warm, but vinyl tape usually isn’t great to use on a motor. 
And yes, the incoming rectifier leads don’t matter, because it’s AC. As Bill said, the hot should go to the switch.  If the fan runs backwards, then switch the + and - leads at the rectifier. 

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Lane, Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely keep that in mind and add some to my "fan kit." The wire on both coils was in quite good condition. If for some reason it starts to get too warm or my OCD gets ahold of me I can always switch it over as long as I'm careful and take my time. I went with the glass tape for several reasons, foremost being lack of education. Lastly because it is marketed as being for coils on the 3m site. 
I do want to express my sincere gratitude to everyone who has posted a response or comment. Every person who has made a suggestion or left a comment has taught me something new. The project is far from over and there will be more questions coming. I can only hope that my many questions may help someone else in the future. 

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Has anyone ever re insulated the brush holders on one of these fans? Testing between the armature and coils I found some leakage. I believe I isolated the cause to the rather old insulation around the brush holders. I was hoping someone might have some suggestions as to a suitable replacement. Barring locating an insulating sleeve, my first thought would be a layer or two of quality heat shrink. Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated. 

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Last edited on Tue Nov 2nd, 2021 11:28 am by Todd Armentrout

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It's been a while but this is the most recent progress. Much thanks to everyone who offered guidance. I'm looking for a suitable spot to pla e the rectifier. Does anyone have any photos of where and how they positioned theirs?


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